Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

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Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Thuufir on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:50 am

Hi folks ,

you all know there is a huge gap between rookies and experienced pilots which can be very frustrating for a beginner.
Often Stripe One pilots are leaving the game if the battle is too intense ... or bloody

Is it in your view Okay to give special advantages to Stripe 1-2 or even 3 pilots ?
What could be useful advantages - less weapon heat ? more shield ? more speed ? point boni ?

I would be glad to hear your thoughts about this ....
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Birillo on Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:41 am

Hi  Smile ,
more shield for limited time ( need for experience).....and if rookie pilot assist or kill a pilot with more strip receive points bonus to upgrade/ unlocks ships.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Shade on Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:00 am

Personally, I remember when I first started to play this game... I sucked... Real bad... But I saw players like Viking Jack and FoxHound who I thought were godly at the time, hah. Even though I kept dying and was absolute trash at the game I strived to be better.

I honestly think the best way for a player to get good at a game is by sucking, getting destroyed and learning, but I realise many players would simply not bother if that were to happen.

So, I'm kind of undecided on whether or not it would be ok to give them advantages. I mean, it would be okay to me if other players had a bit of an advantage, but in the end, this could be a disadvantage for the newer player, since they might get so used to whatever it would be, (extra shields, higher fire rate, shorter weapon cool down?) that when they no longer receive the advantage... They might be back to where they started.

The best idea really is just matching same ranked people together. Too bad MB didn't have enough of a player base.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by lupocattivo on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:07 pm

well....   maybe few hours of invulnerability limited to an area surrounding the spawn point in order to practice safe from vultures.



....   BTW... when are we going to expect another brawl?  What a Face


Last edited by lupocattivo on Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by the-anger on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:26 am

need to keep two ideas separate here - skill and experience.

skill aside, matchmaker solves any issue of experience if it can be made to work on player stats (not that they have been collected but supposing it was).

then, skill isn't so much of an issue because in theory equally skilled players will advance their stats more or less as quickly, but much faster than say an average player would. that way players who take longer to pick up the game at the least won't be stuck with griefers. and their score will keep griefers bouncing from players they can dominate to games where they are helpless, and in the middle they have a fair game anyway.

my 2c
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Pejota on Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:56 am

I gave them advantages, first never fly prestige ships, second dont shoot to kill, give them tips, but players these days are not accustomed to games with high learning curves, its easier to hit alt-F4.

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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Nightwing on Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:39 pm

Yeah... The closest that I come to a so-called 'prestige' ship is flying my Timberwolf. Even then, it's only in CA matches, which people normally veto anyway...

Otherwise, I'll fly either my Mamba or my Nighthawk, both of which have their advantages and disadvantages, and can't be considered 'prestige' ships.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Thuufir on Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:45 pm

Shade wrote:I honestly think the best way for a player to get good at a game is by sucking, getting destroyed and learning, but I realise many players would simply not bother if that were to happen.

I agree - although flying as rookie agains aces doesnt give you so much time to adept and analyze. For this reason i think this approach is quite interesting:
Lupo wrote:maybe few hours of invulnerability limited to an area surrounding the spawn point in order to practice safe from vultures.
This should give enough time and could work as defense model too - defending a carrier is quite instructional. On the other hand this invites the player to (later) Carrier Camping a thing to avoid ..

Shade wrote:The best idea really is just matching same ranked people together. Too bad MB didn't have enough of a player base.

True indeed !!   In case of MB i am not sure how they could manage this because its a single game session. Lock the noobs out ! ;-) Immmmmbbaaaaaa Ent do something about it  !

Anger wrote:skill isn't so much of an issue because in theory equally skilled players will advance their stats more or less as quickly, but much faster than say an average player would. that way players who take longer to pick up the game at the least won't be stuck with griefers. and their score will keep griefers bouncing from players they can dominate to games where they are helpless, and in the middle they have a fair game anyway.

Yes it was thought as how can player stas changed to give a fresh pilot enough time. In the best case a beginner should try to the griefer and the ace .... maybe this would calm down a bit in a matchmaker:
Pejota wrote:Dont fly prestige ships
... or with other words "Only a F3 is selectable" mode instead of gentlemen agreement with new spawning A80  Very Happy 

In Stats i guess more Shield should do it - aces will kill as before but just take a bit longer - and rookies are forced to improve shooting and boost manamgent anyways ... and if they smelled blood they even could go for the griefers ... and if not they have more reserves to escape successfully or survive for reinforcements...

Anything else in mind !
Thank you all so far !
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by longshot on Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:39 pm

Its kinda funny reading this thread, its like an echo from nearly 2 years ago when the servers were populated, the developer(s) were active and ideas discussed here could have been implemented.

I know WJ had planned on separating matches into 2 tiers, one for people with less experience bars and lower level ships and the other for vets, with the ability for n00bs to join vet matches if they wanted but not vice versa.

I'm unsure about the limited-time carrier immunity, it wouldn't have taught players the consequences of bad habits (such as flying straight with no situational awareness), all it'd do is save them from death, make their opponents irritated that they couldn't shoot them down, and teach them to carrier camp.

And yes, jerks who insisted on bringing A80s to mamba parties deserve to be griefed. I remember bringing out the Boomer & telling everyone on chat "I'm not targeting any Mambas unless they shoot at me, I'm only hunting that !@#% A80".

Nightwing I disagree with you on the Nighthawk. Its zappo weapon was buffed so much in the last patch or two that it became the ship of choice for many aces, such as Belshirash and Anger, both of whom were capable of kill counts in the 50s and 60s using it. Games quickly became un-fun for everyone else when there were a several zap-merchants insta-ganking ship after ship from ultra long range, in fact more than anything else its what drove me away from MB.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Loki on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:32 pm

longshot wrote:Its kinda funny reading this thread, its like an echo from nearly 2 years ago when the servers were populated, the developer(s) were active and ideas discussed here could have been implemented.

^ Same impression here.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by the-anger on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:20 pm

ditto.

also re nighthawk... the only recourse is a tactical engagement - fighting one in the open or on its terms is suicide. light ships don't stand a chance, i don't care how good you are you simply cannot fight the alpha of two beams and rocket spam; someone who knows how to maneuver in this game is worse still (i've inadvertently demonstrated in quite a few games that even a sidewinder has to try really hard to take out a nighthawk).

the only fair balancing act with ships is same ship for everyone. skill is already 90% of the factor give or take, and you want to give the skilled another advantage? lol

for that matter:
F3 - standard issue
F3X - OP because you can't catch it
M10 - OP, has firepower exceeding that of nighthawk if used right (more beam dps)
M3 - OP due to machinegun spam (can take out heavies in one good pass)
V-66 - noobkiller express
FM-25 - see above
G5 - OP, best stats of all fighters overall
X99 - OP, street sweeper cleaning up anything stupid enough to run from it
bombers - new players struggle to shoot them down
heavies - stupid amount of firepower with large shield pools, new players struggle over the hurdle to shoot them down and live.

nope, the only balance is performance-based or you give everyone the same tools/ships/weapons.
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Re: Advantages for rookies ..... Okay or not Okay ?

Post by Nostromo on Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:00 pm

If a player isn't willing to ask questions and take advice in-game then there is no hope for them. You can't make concessions for Players not willing to learn the game or even look for help guides.

As far as Raw statistical equality goes, nothing but the F3 will even the playing field for rookies. Even then the Aces/Veterans will have long upgraded that puppy to max giving a near unbeatable edge for them. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows if I'm not trolling Luxxies and A80's with my F3-X, I'm in the F3. I love the F3, but even I noticed that competent rookies are extremely hard pressed to compete with me in one. Even giving them tips like using the Remote-Detonation on their rockets, or telling them to group up. I've only had issue when flying against at least three decent rookies.

I learned how to fly my Mamba against people like Agent of Change, Anger, HowitzerNAM, Vigilente, and Viking Jack in their best craft. Simple truth is if the players aren't willing to try and learn and adapt then you can't help them.
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