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Torp remote det

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Gamut
Xron
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Ferc Polo
Loki
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Post by Xron Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:29 am

I think the torps should have a bigger hit box. I often die when I try to shoot one down to save my team and BAM.

I think nukes should be feared in all game modes but on the other hand they can't be a confirmed kill, being able to easily shoot down a nuke would allow you to rip out the bombers teeth easily and would make carrier assault a better team game. (it's too easy to shoot torps past turrets.
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Post by Grey Man Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 am

Loki wrote:

There's an old party rule that came out of tabletop RPGs a long time ago and this reminded me of it. We used to say "Kill the wizard first". Anything with AoE was labelled a wizard.

...500m radius.

This reminded me of another rule I have a hard time following but also applies to MB: Don't split the party.

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Post by Loki Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:07 am

Grey Man wrote:
Loki wrote:

There's an old party rule that came out of tabletop RPGs a long time ago and this reminded me of it. We used to say "Kill the wizard first". Anything with AoE was labelled a wizard.

...500m radius.

This reminded me of another rule I have a hard time following but also applies to MB: Don't split the party.

Agreed. But spread out a bit when the fireballs start flying lol
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Post by Loki Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:10 am

Xron wrote:(it's too easy to shoot torps past turrets.

It's only easy if you know how, but that applies to so much else in this game. Once you know the secrets, the game becomes much easier to score creds in. I had a match yesterday where the defenders appeared to know the torpedo tricks and shot down most of mine. It was only when I outran or tricked them into going the wrong direction did I managed to sink a few in, and most of the damage was done by others while I was distracting the defenders.
I saw a new player today (and myself in the past) try again and again to get a torp into the carrier. He got frustrated and was asking how to do it it in the lobby. I directed him here.
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Post by Grey Man Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:16 am

HAHA! This metaphor keeps getting better and better!

Coming soon - Moon Breakers: Pen and Paper edition.

"I attack Loki with mah Lazor. My THAC0's a 1."

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Post by Loki Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:32 pm

Grey Man wrote:"I attack Loki with mah Lazor. My THAC0's a 1."

Loki's AC is -10 according to N64 Goldeneye...also Most Frantic.
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Post by Gamut Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:51 am

Search and Destroy does create a bit of a problem for new players - back when Moon Breakers had first come to Steam, I remember just how much fun it was to see two whole sides of Mambas being flown against each other - the gameplay was fast-paced and frantic; no one flew bombers due to the fact that the Rhino just couldn't do much versus the hordes of fighters without their remote nuke detonation. Now, as Moon Breakers has grown, we're seeing many more prestige ships, heavy fighters, and bombers in a given S&D match. Take a look at the scoreboards the next time you play and you'll see how rare the light ships have become - I can only assume that this is due to how long it takes to slog through a bomber's armor with just a little bit of machine gun fire and also how much more aware of your surroundings a light fighter needs to be. Seriously, how often do you see a Light / Medium chassis flown OTHER than the V-66 (Medium in Light's chassis) or X99 Merlin (which is really just a Heavy in Medium's chassis)? When half of the enemy team are composed of bombers, it takes FOREVER to try to cut them down, but then you reach the paradox where they're infinitely more dangerous to leave alone and keep working on zone denial with their nukes.

Now, jump into the shoes of a new player - what are they left taking into battle if not a Mamba? A Rhino - they'll survive the stray gunfire and probably make it back to friendly territory before exploding. What are the beginner's options for racking up cred in Search & Destroy? Lob a few nukes into a skirmish, maybe give a brief strafing run, and retreat.

Sadly, for people to stick around for Moon Breakers, they'll probably need a token Heavy Fighter just so they can feel like they're actually playing the game, as opposed to cherry picking and relying on dumb luck. Part of me wonders if Imba could examine having a chassis-lockout mode, limiting craft that can be flown. Realistically, they'd probably need to create custom-game-style settings wherein a host could actually set that, but I know I'd certainly get a kick out of flying a pure-Light Search and Destroy mission every once in a while.

Alternatively, a new Artillery-support style ship could be introduced: bombers could lose their remote detonation abilities in exchange for increased blast radius or damage, perhaps, while the new Artillery ships can be lower-armored and require protection to keep bombarding the enemy team. Just a random thought that entered my mind, really.

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Post by Loki Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:15 am

WJ and Ed from IMBA have both said that they're working on separating the new from the experienced. We'll have a tiered system for players as well as ships soon.
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Post by Nostromo Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:24 am

You know, with the introduction of the destroyer and those neat solo turrets, they could start having the platforms be stronger and more accurate against heavier ships. Using the explanation that the bigger the ship, the easier it is to track with turret systems.


just a thought that can be improved or changed in any way that works for the game.
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Post by Kackling Kobold Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:47 am

heres how to fix it: upgrade the Mamba to medium fighter status and give it the shielding that new players need and DESERVE.

Disable bombers entirely for search and destroy.

DONE. no more nuke spam
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Post by longshot Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:58 am

A bit off topic, but here's a couple more...

1. Increase the delay on A80 and FH90 missiles, give the A80 another centre-line machine gun with better heat sink instead, and maybe slightly increase the boomer's ROF and sink a little too. Less missiles, more guns.

2. Increase the speed of bullets so its back to being the same as it was relative to ships, before the ships got their speed boost. Right now it feels like spraying a garden hose rather than machine gunning. You have to get much closer than previously to get a kill, and against heavily armed ships with alpha damage from a distance its a tough ask for a light fighter - the balance has been skewed too far in favour of beams and missiles.

3. WJ pls listen to the community and stop with the fixation on nuke spam as a valid tactic.

4. Come back developers please, we miss you.


Last edited by longshot on Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kackling Kobold Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:10 am

I was seriously considering spending money on this game... not to unlock anything, but simply because I love the game and want to help support the devs.

I have very little money to spare in the first place though, let alone for something that includes this kind of garbage. With the free to fly rotation gone, the game seems to be dying.

We'll see how it goes with the supposedly upcoming changes.
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Post by Kackling Kobold Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:38 pm

I've started adopting an aggresive policy;

when I see nuke spammers in premium bombers on my team I stop fighting & team bump their butts out of the carrier.

This is not a complete reversal from my previous stand, rhino's get a pass, particularly if they dive into the fray, but any other bomber, particularly bisons hanging out inside the carrier, are just not acceptablein S&D. I've had plenty of opportunity to see this crap get out of hand, & it truly is wrecking the game.

I firmly feel that the enablers are as much to blame for this grief as the perpetrators. The only way to fight this, barring intervention from the devs, is to stop enabling as a community. No more protection for pilots doing this. no more easy wins. Police your own teams.

If team bumping doesn't get the point across, I fly mamba's straight into enemy lines just to undermine the nukespammer's score.
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Post by Kackling Kobold Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:28 pm

CTF is fine i guess, but premium bombers in S&D frustrate me so much I've decided not to even unlock one, because I don't ever ever want to frustrate someone else in this way.

rhino's for CA all the way.
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Post by longshot Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:20 pm

LOL @ your sig there KK Smile

Why not fly (in S&D) the ship that makes short work of any bomber & has A80 pilots looking over their shoulder, and use it just on enemies flying those 2 ship types so the lights can party in their furball?
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Post by DrunkenMonkey Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:55 pm

It's not the bomber, but the guys that fly in behind you as you take it out. And you die faster than it does geek That equals free torpedo kills for the derping bomber.

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Post by Kackling Kobold Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:47 pm

longshot wrote:LOL @ your sig there KK Smile

Why not fly (in S&D) the ship that makes short work of any bomber & has A80 pilots looking over their shoulder, and use it just on enemies flying those 2 ship types so the lights can party in their furball?

You mean a G5? I do that all the time!

JK. Yeah I unlocked a boomer a week or two ago for just that reason, & I do that sometimes... Boomers are as vulnerable to a deus of aces in premium fighters as any other ship.

This is what I mean about enablers though. If those fighters recognized that there was nuke spam going on (& its hard to miss), and could tell I was in a bomber breaker, they could easily give me a pass & see what I do with it. It's one thing to have new pilots tear me apart when they don't know or understand that I've given them a free flyby & really I'm fighting on their behalf. It's quite another to see premium fighters protecting nuke spammers.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you don't like nuke spammers, don't enable them.

I've been contemplating unlocking a hammerhead & literally *ONLY* launching it to hunt bombers. It's a little more obviously a bomber hunter, in my mind, than the FH-90
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Post by the-anger Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:51 pm

aces will be aces regardless of the ship... but the point is valid, some players (knowingly or otherwise) aid nuke spammers by defending them and that can be a bit annoying.

youre left with either hunting the aces amongst a cloud of nuke spam, or hunting bombers amongst a cloud of aces. id say do the first option - hunt the aces.

yes nuke spam is annoying, yes it a very cheap way of getting kills... but by no means is it an impediment to the score of a decent player. you dont have to have amazing aim or piloting skills to take on a bomber, just a bit of common sense (take out the torp, youre good for 20 seconds - ample time to kill any bomber with ANY fighter by the time another nuke is launched).

frankly aces pose a bigger threat than any nuke spammer does to your score (or theirs), so when aces are defending bombers you have to look at it a bit differently... aces (that i know of and played with) will tend not to defend the bombers intentionally, its just that bombers attract a steady stream of targets to shoot. it seems like theyre defending but in fact theyre shooting down a single-file attempt to take out the bombers (and sometimes just one).

in this case both parties are to blame - aces ought to recognise when theyre getting easy kills (there is no shame in any tactic if your team is losing) but at the same time it is idiotic to fly into a furball to hunt that one bomber because youre butthurt you were killed by nuke spam.

personally i now see no difference between hunting bombers in s&d with a vengeance if theyre nuke spamming, compared to hunting down some prick that somehow manages to blindside you most of the time. its the exact same tactic if both are deliberate. ie, you can blindside someone by feigning playing bad or slow then rush them once they switch to a target they think poses a bigger threat - it isn't all that different from being hit with a nuke, the only reason you could have ended up there is if you were caught by surprise or ignored the feigned threat / torp for too long.

im not saying it isn't cheap, because it is, but it isn't worth raging so much about when there are (tactically) equivalent ways to achieve the same kind of dominance... though why they are seemingly exempt from being called cheap or unskillful while nuke spamming continues to be (be fair now, nuke spamming takes skill in, if nothing else, being opportunistic and deceptive), is a mystery to me...
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Post by Kackling Kobold Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:48 am

dogfighting with nukes takes skill, and yes it can be annoying, & yes I get aggravated by people who do this, but I don't qualify that as nuke spam.

So lets clarify; sitting in or next to your carrier & throwing nukes into a furball which your defenders are deliberately keeping in your sweet spot. I do tend to treat unlocked bombers in S&D as nuke spammers, as more of a pro-active measure; If I don't take them out when I get the chance, I might not get to take them out once the match "shapes up" in their favor. Part of the problem is that once you're on a roll with this ploy, it's self perpetuating. Once the nukes are going off regularly in a few areas, it's pretty easy for a defender to hang out in that range, increasing the chances that anyone trying to tangle with him dies in a nuclear fireball. I think the most aggravating thing is that on the rare occasion that I do break through or slip around, that bomber ace is heading back into the carrier before I've even gotten a couple shots off. Yeah sure I could fly in after him, but I can barely make it through the carrier, how am I supposed to hurt him really with 6 insta kill turrets gunning for me?
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Post by Kackling Kobold Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:56 am

as a secondary concern, as an ace starts racking up the kills with this, new pilots in rhinos follow suit, & this is when it becomes a very serious problem. Four bombers can make the nukes seem to never end.

I don't really blame new pilots, I don't often hunt rhinos that haven't already killed me once, & sometimes not even then. My problem is with established pilots who really should know better.


Last edited by Kackling Kobold on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by longshot Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:13 am

unfortunately you're preaching to the choir on this KK. When the remote det feature was introduced, quite a few of us complained at length on the official forum, only to hear that it was a deliberate design decision by the devs & wouldn't be reversed.

And as things stand lately, who knows if there are any devs left to change things?
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Post by Kackling Kobold Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:40 pm

le sigh.

In the final, gasping breaths of this game, the waning community has a power to make a difference, in the ways they choose to play.

I've seen a few things that give me hope, but strapping into my G5 to ram teammates gives me no joy.
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