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suggestion for carrier turrets

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Post by ratcharmer Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:52 pm

As it stands now carrier turrets are instant death to newbie pilots who haven't learned to dodge them yet and pretty much a non-entity for veteran pilots. A decent pilot can easily do laps around an undamaged carrier without taking any damage from the defensive turrets.

My suggestion is this: make the turrets less accurate. Right now they predict where you're going to be and all the turrets fire right at that pinpoint location. What if they sprayed fire all around that general area? Turrets would become less deadly to new pilots, but more of a threat to veterans.

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Post by Nutz Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:03 pm

So basically like throwing up anti-aircraft fire. Just filing the space with flak. Might be a good idea because your right, the turrets pose no issues to the veterans.


Last edited by Nutz on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Loki Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:18 pm

WJ said he'd like to turn the external turrets into flak cannons eventually.
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Post by tedwj Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:04 pm

Loki wrote:WJ said he'd like to turn the external turrets into flak cannons eventually.


I would love to have a flak cannon on a medium fighter...Close to the old speed of the kingfisher... rockets and an 800 m range. Could make an interesting bomber hunter. Smile
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Post by the-anger Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:13 am

2 things to consider:

destroyers aren't implemented yet. these will circle carriers adding another layer of defense.

the turrets have to be accurate, otherwise torpedoes (and less experienced pilots in slow bombers) will slip through. if the turrets couldn't take out something coming right at them, what kind of defense would that make?
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Post by Jiel Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:50 am

ratcharmer wrote:As it stands now carrier turrets are instant death to newbie pilots who haven't learned to dodge them yet and pretty much a non-entity for veteran pilots.
The solution to this problem seems fairly obvious to me: learn how to dodge turret fire.
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Post by Can-Swiss Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:00 am

Jiel wrote:The solution to this problem seems fairly obvious to me: learn how to dodge turret fire.

Or decoy with Rockets if you are low on dodge and weave ability or gogo juice pirat
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Post by Twilight Sparkleā„¢ Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:45 am

Flaks are a good idea. mixed with nerfed versions of turrets we see today, it will be like WW2 but in space.
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Post by ratcharmer Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:49 pm

the-anger wrote:2 things to consider:

destroyers aren't implemented yet. these will circle carriers adding another layer of defense.

the turrets have to be accurate, otherwise torpedoes (and less experienced pilots in slow bombers) will slip through. if the turrets couldn't take out something coming right at them, what kind of defense would that make?

Destroyers- these hold the potential to be dangerous to veterans, but can only make things even harder on newbies.

Nukes- it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult for the turrets to switch back to their current firing pattern when targeting a torpedo

Learn to dodge- If they knew how to do this then they wouldn't be newbies. I think one of the major issues facing Moonbreakers is that the game is so harsh on newbies the vast majority walk away after trying the game. A poor first experience ensures there won't be a second experience.

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Post by Loki Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:48 pm

[quote="ratcharmer"]
the-anger wrote:one of the major issues facing Moonbreakers is that the game is so harsh on newbies the vast majority walk away after trying the game.

This has been a problem for a long time. WJ is trying to figure out how to fix this.
His next attempt is different missions for rookies that help with the main goals of the gametype but don't put them where they are most likely to die. He's said that they won't be told to attack carriers or go after flags, but stick around on defense first. Not sure what else he has planned.
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Post by Nostromo Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:46 pm

odd suggestion here, what if the turrets gained bonuses when firing against pilots with bounties? Such as accuracy, damage, and/or prediction(?). This might help the carriers against the Vet's while leaving the Newbs with the old Death Star experience... "Lasers everywhere and I'm still not dead!?"

Also you could even thrown in the rare super turret, with beam cannon, in case of Loki's badassery.
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Post by Loki Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:47 pm

Nostromo_Crew wrote:odd suggestion here, what if the turrets gained bonuses when firing against pilots with bounties? Such as accuracy, damage, and/or prediction(?). This might help the carriers against the Vet's while leaving the Newbs with the old Death Star experience... "Lasers everywhere and I'm still not dead!?"

Also you could even thrown in the rare super turret, with beam cannon, in case of Loki's badassery.

I like the bonuses vs vets or bounties. Please suggest that on the Userecho forum Smile
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Post by Nutz Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:32 am

Could be really interesting if we had the option of manning some of the outside turrets Suspect
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Post by Nostromo Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:14 pm

I don't believe that allowing manned turrets is a good idea, cause you may end up with an entire team trying to gun and Loki would end that game in a minute.
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Post by Nutz Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:37 pm

Ahh! the carnage. muhahahaha.
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Post by the-anger Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:17 pm

manned turrets would be interesting but in practice it will be at most as good as turrets are now...

turrets currently don't have to worry about FOV to detect targets, only LOS. turrets also have 'perfect' aim at hitting a target with constant velocity (as do the best bots in FPS games, eg, quake 3 nightmare bots with rockets / plasma gun) because otherwise they couldn't take out torpedoes.

manual aiming will only be superior vs players, only vs non-linear flying, and only if the person aiming has precognitive powers of some sort or is capable of figuring out where the target is going to fly to when they're not flying in a straight line.

in other words, would definitely be interesting, but turrets would have to be super OP (more damage per hit) as they are now before manual control will reach even par performance. flak turrets manually aimed would work with more success, otherwise you would need much more dmg per turret bullet to make it as effective as automatic turrets are now.
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Post by Loki Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Nostromo_Crew wrote:I don't believe that allowing manned turrets is a good idea, cause you may end up with an entire team trying to gun and Loki would end that game in a minute.

Lol

I think a manned turret would be much harder to take on than an AI gun, particularly several.
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Post by ratcharmer Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:08 am

Manned turrets could be problematic with trolling/newbies. By just taking a turret and not doing anything trolls could damage a team's defenses.

. . . and while a human-operated turret could probably out perform an AI-operated one I can't see it ever being worth the trade off of having less fighters flying around. It seems like you'd be much better off having the pilot hop in a fighter and fly defense than trying to man a turret.

Maybe make a true "weapons platform" ship? (extremely slow but good turning, hp and firepower) It could fill pretty much the same role as a human-operated turret while dodging some of the problems.

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Post by the-anger Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:27 am

ratcharmer wrote:Manned turrets could be problematic with trolling/newbies. By just taking a turret and not doing anything trolls could damage a team's defenses.

. . . and while a human-operated turret could probably out perform an AI-operated one I can't see it ever being worth the trade off of having less fighters flying around. It seems like you'd be much better off having the pilot hop in a fighter and fly defense than trying to man a turret.

Maybe make a true "weapons platform" ship? (extremely slow but good turning, hp and firepower) It could fill pretty much the same role as a human-operated turret while dodging some of the problems.

i would argue that the H4B / B-7 are exactly this when used in S&D games - many hate the nuke spamming with a vengeance, but, it is what these 2 ships can do best outside of CTF/CA: move slowly, turn fast relative to their speed (ok not that fast but still fast enough if they're not the primary target), hp tanks (B-7 regenerates at a silly rate if left alone, justice bus has more than half of a turret's hp as it is), shoot things nearby like a turret and deal massive damage from a support role (ie, have to be defended to be effective).
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Post by DrunkenMonkey Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:39 am

Good point. If you think you get frustrated with new players "turreting" in bombers, wait till they can man real turrets Wink

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Post by Xron Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:44 am

I think the best idea is still reduce the accuracy of the turrets, it would have the desired effect of making it harder on vets while easier on. I could not agree more with that.

I also think that rocket baiting should be nerfed a little, maybe the turrets should be set up so only two of them would concentrate in a rocket at any one time
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