Things that hold the game back

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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by Nostromo on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:41 am

IDK, I like the game this way, forced me to play at a higher standard to meet my goals, see working my ass off to buy the merlin with creds alone without boosts.
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by science on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:23 am

Viking Jack wrote:
science wrote:F2P requires that the game be unbalanced. Players then seek balance by buying
advantages with real money. That's the profit model and that's why I don't normally
play F2P games and prior to this one, I've never put any money into them.

The nubs get raped and the vets are gifted a hollow and ultimately pyrrhic victory.
After all, no one with any self respect enjoys beating disadvantaged opponents.

Ordinarily it's the responsibility of the developers to create a balanced game, one bounded by
legal restrictions, but since they are required to do otherwise it's left to the players,
many of whom instinctively look to restore the value of their victories by implementing
balance via moral obligations. Moral obligations are voluntary though and people disagree
about their shape and form, legitimately so, tbh. It's a recipe for discontent.

Personally, I get bent out of shape by vets flying killbine harvesters and speed running
objectives, but I can't deny that they are perfectly within their rights to do so.
This friction within the community wouldn't exist if the game was properly balanced in the
first place, but that leaves no room for the F2P model.

So why do I still play? Well, I'm with Samuel T Anders on this one:

"It's about those moments when... you can feel the perfection of creation. The beauty of
physics, the wonder of mathematics. And all the relation of action and reaction. And that
is the kind of perfection I want to be connected to"

...I love to fly, and that, at least, is something that mb does get right.
It's probably the only reason most of us are still here, wading through the bullshit,
snatching at those moments of sheer joy.

(sorry for the necro. there aren't any trolls here though so I guess it's not important)

i have never put a cent on a F2P game yet i enjoyed them all

Says it all m8, says it all. No wonder the game failed.
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by longshot on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:31 am

From the contact I & others had with the developers, it seemed to me that it failed because IMBA had far too large a team, all drawing a hefty salary, and they also paid top dollar for 3D models to be developed by outside consultants. They had a big wad of cash to create this game, wastefully blew it all getting the game developed to where it is without ever having a plan for how they'd make money, then left WJ to carry on all alone (until Uber swept him away).

We could all have put $50 into the tin, wouldn't have made much difference.
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by science on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:35 am

Nostromo_Crew wrote:IDK, I like the game this way, forced me to play at a higher standard to meet my goals, see working my ass off to buy the merlin with creds alone without boosts.

I'm beginning to see a pattern developing here..
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by science on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:07 am

longshot wrote:From the contact I & others had with the developers, it seemed to me that it failed because IMBA had far too large a team, all drawing a hefty salary, and they also paid top dollar for 3D models to be developed by outside consultants. They had a big wad of cash to create this game, wastefully blew it all getting the game developed to where it is without ever having a plan for how they'd make money, then left WJ to carry on all alone (until Uber swept him away).

We could all have put $50 into the tin, wouldn't have made much difference.

If people won't pay for games that cost money to make, apparently on principle, how
would a better business plan have helped matters?

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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by science on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:24 am

Ah well, it doesn't matter anyway. It's not as if arguing about it will change anything.

/peace and out.
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by longshot on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:27 am

Firstly, they didn't seem to have any idea how they'd make money from the game. By not having that clear at the outset they were guaranteed of one thing - it wouldn't make money. Secondly they were very wasteful with their seed capital, ensuring that it wouldn't last nearly long enough to get a quality product finished, and that has nothing to do with people paying or not paying.

Honestly the game is incomplete - its really just an open beta. Any open beta that needs its testers, which is what we are, to make a substantial financial contribution is really in trouble.

I can go further, MB originally had blatant pay-to-win ships. Its more balanced now (still not great), but I remember Vipers, Merlins and Swordfish when they were unbelievably over the top and you had to pay big creds (or He3) to get them. That kind of thing may look on the surface like a good idea to bring in cash, but it'll also turn a lot of people away when they get the idea that they're only cannon fodder for wallet warriors.

Another area is lack of marketing. For a game like this to thrive, it needed to be easy to get into (it wasn't, the free ships are far from ideal for newbies and the controls are counter-intuitive), and widely advertised. IMBA did nothing in this regard other than getting Uber to publish the game on Steam. We pushed them to consider a Kickstarter, but they ignored the suggestion.

With all that said, there have been many players who've loved the game and supported it with He3 purchases in order to contribute to its development.
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by science on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:31 am

longshot wrote:Firstly, they didn't seem to have any idea how they'd make money from the game. By not having that clear at the outset they were guaranteed of one thing - it wouldn't make money. Secondly they were very wasteful with their seed capital, ensuring that it wouldn't last nearly long enough to get a quality product finished, and that has nothing to do with people paying or not paying.

It seems to me that they had a plan, it just didn't work. Not an uncommon occurance
in a world without 20:20 foresight.

longshot wrote:Honestly the game is incomplete - its really just an open beta. Any open beta that needs its testers, which is what we are, to make a substantial financial contribution is really in trouble.

Incomplete games are released all the time, usually when the startup capital ran out.
Either that or because unmet deadlines were imposed from on high that weren't arbitrary
in nature. But yes, that it was released in a buggy and unfinished state is not in
dispute.

longshot wrote:I can go further, MB originally had blatant pay-to-win ships. Its more balanced now (still not great), but I remember Vipers, Merlins and Swordfish when they were unbelievably over the top and you had to pay big creds (or He3) to get them. That kind of thing may look on the surface like a good idea to bring in cash, but it'll also turn a lot of people away when they get the idea that they're only cannon fodder for wallet warriors.

Yep. Bilateral greed. Players who want a game for free, devs who want to
charge a fortune for nothing, rich people who want instant results.
Everyone in between is screwed. Honestly though, mb is not the poster game
embodying all the evils of F2P. I wouldn't have gone anywhere near it
were that the case. I came late to the party and duely avoided some of
the worst excesses.

longshot wrote:Another area is lack of marketing. For a game like this to thrive, it needed to be easy to get into (it wasn't, the free ships are far from ideal for newbies and the controls are counter-intuitive), and widely advertised. IMBA did nothing in this regard other than getting Uber to publish the game on Steam. We pushed them to consider a Kickstarter, but they ignored the suggestion.

It would have been a hard sell I think. It would also have made them look bad,
which is probably why they didn't go for it. As has been pointed out (on one of the forums)
the game is a mess. Advertising it whilst it was still a mess probably wouldn't
have had the intended results.

longshot wrote:With all that said, there have been many players who've loved the game and supported it with He3 purchases in order to contribute to its development.

We can trade manys until the cows come home. In lieu of any hard data, we will
probably conclude inline with our assumptions, regardless.

The fact remains that even if everything went according to a different and better
plan, *many* people still wouldn't have paid for it. Consequently, the apparently
irresistable desire is there to try and get more money from those who will pay.
Which results in a higher cumulative cost of playing without handicaps vs
conventional buy to play or subscription models.
Rich people don't care. they flush their cash like it was toilet paper, refuseniks
don't care, they can play all night and all day grinding in the slow lane
and contending with all the deliberately introduced roadblocks and speed bumps.
This leaves people with modest funds and limted time having nothing to
play that doesn't leave them fundamentally disadvantaged, usually in multiple
ways. But that is the state of play.

I see Black Prophecy just closed it's doors. I guess they f*cked up their
approach vector too?

Anyway, the belated response from uberent seems to indicate that they
don't own the rights to develop the game. (unless they were weasel words)
That being the case, they can't so much as apply trivial bug fixes to
shut out the cheats. And speaking of cheats, I spotted another one
earlier, which totalled 2 in the same game. So, perhaps unsurprisingly
I'm gonna pack up my turgid prose and my F2P rage and go and look
for a new hobby, since I'm fairly well disinterested in playing against
people who have already admitted to themselves that they can't compete
on their own merits.

It was a good laugh Smile

/peace and out
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Re: Things that hold the game back

Post by longshot on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 am

If you find something that's as fun as MB, with the kind of friendly community we've had here, please let us know. I've been searching long & hard and haven't played anything that comes even close to the thrill of weaving through asteroids in a sidewinder.
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