The physics of space battle

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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:17 am

Loki wrote:Needed a second look after my coffee started working Wink

You're proposing a flying wing that rides it's own compression wave inferno?  How is this not cool?
I didn't even think about wings, because at those speeds the fuselage should provide enough lift.
It has a pointy nose in the front and a toroidal aerospike in the back.
Loki wrote:
Got some questions and confirmations on operation;
Inertia and gas pressure keeps the fuel pressed against the rear of the tank?  Presumably you would stop cooling the fuel once you reached cruising altitude; it'll start boiling on it's own from there, though once you got it compressed inside the tank, all you may have to do is close the fuel valve and open it when you need it.
Seems like you'd have to maintain a very fine balance between fast enough and not too fast to keep the ignited fuel from expanding beyond the fuselage.  Am I missing something here?  No actual measurements or angles to compare too.
How do you get it up to speed to begin with?  Standard turbine thrust?  Rocket boosters?
you could use a ramjet stage to achieve mach five, or alternatively and more violent:
you could also use a ram accelerator to start out with mach five:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1399/1046415745_2a0b63eabd_o.jpg
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Loki on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:42 pm

If there's no wings, what are you using for control surfaces? Or will some ailerons on the fuselage suffice?

Have you considered this method for launching materials into orbit? Getting it up to Mach 6 will put it in the mid-range for orbital speed.

This is quickly becoming a vessel for transporting robust, non-living materials if you're using the ram accelerator lol
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:36 pm

Loki wrote:Inertia and gas pressure keeps the fuel pressed against the rear of the tank?  Presumably you would stop cooling the fuel once you reached cruising altitude; it'll start boiling on it's own from there, though once you got it compressed inside the tank, all you may have to do is close the fuel valve and open it when you need it.
Seems like you'd have to maintain a very fine balance between fast enough and not too fast to keep the ignited fuel from expanding beyond the fuselage.  Am I missing something here?
No, confirmed.
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Viking Jack on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:09 pm

the aircraft isn't that crazy in fact it reminds me to that experimental WW2 plane the bachem Ba349 aka ''the natter'' made like the V1 bombs.
i think you should add a less powerfull auxiliary engine along retractable wings for takeoff and landing and leave the main engine for cruising

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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:53 pm

Jack, you see that the fuel flows all over the cockpit and half the fuselage is covered in flames, right ?
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Viking Jack on Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:11 pm

thats why i said ''retractable wings'' not fixed ones once the plane takes off and reachs a good altitude it opens the fuel valve, the wings store themselves inside the plane and the main engine starts like i said the wings and auxiliary engine are just for landing and takeoff

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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:16 pm

Loki wrote:If there's no wings, what are you using for control surfaces?  Or will some ailerons on the fuselage suffice?
yes, at those speeds very small control surfaces should suffice to fly straight.
Loki wrote:Have you considered this method for launching materials into orbit?  Getting it up to Mach 6 will put it in the mid-range for orbital speed.
I have no idea how good it would work.
Loki wrote:This is quickly becoming a vessel for transporting robust, non-living materials if you're using the ram accelerator lol
Yes, the nice thing about it is, that it has already the right shape for the ram accelerator.
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Viking Jack on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:38 am

i still think your plane would make a nice interceptor if the retractable wings im thinking that the way some insects like the ladybugs use store their wings might work along with a conventional engine at the rear just for takeoff and landing operations

also you can always use it as a parasite plane and make some bigger plane drop it in midair if you don't like the wings idea another insane idea i have is using some kind of magnetic hooks in the mother plane for your plane to be recovered after a flight just like the old zeppelins with the biplanes

as for alternative control methods could it be possible to use a gyroscope just like the germans V2 rocket used?

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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Viking Jack wrote:i still think your plane would make a nice interceptor if the retractable wings im thinking that the way some insects like the ladybugs use store their wings might work along with a conventional engine at the rear just for takeoff and landing operations

also you can always use it as a parasite plane and make some bigger plane drop it in midair
Yes why not.
Viking Jack wrote:
if you don't like the wings idea another insane idea i have is using some kind of magnetic hooks in the mother plane for your plane to be recovered after a flight just like the old zeppelins with the biplanes.
Currently I don't even know if it would be possible to slow down my plane, because if you close the fuel valve, you have no cooling in the front and maybe everything blows up. If it is possible to slow down maybe the magnetic hook works, but I doubt you'll find a pilot who's bad-ass enough for this mission. I mean the docking would still happen at an insane speed.

Viking Jack wrote:as for alternative control methods could it be possible to use a gyroscope just like the germans V2 rocket used?
I think the gyroscope there was only a sensor for the control system, wasn't it?
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Viking Jack on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:21 pm

the gyroscope in the V2 was mostly used to maintain the rocket in course idk how exactly but the germans made the calculations on the gyroscope before launching the rocket then this one would keep the rocket flying straight to its target and then alter the course but to tell the truth i don't really know very much about how it worked

unless you can find a way to jettison the remaining fuel or send it elsewhere like a conventional engine i say yeah you are screwed:p anyway both ways fuel dumping and sending it elsewhere would work when it comes to droping and docking on a magnetic hook would be as easy as refueling in midair


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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Nightwing on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:47 am

In the 'Honor Harrington' books, one of my favorite portrayals of a naval war in space, the ships are propelled by manipulating gravitational forces into wedges. These wedges are completely impenetrable, but due to the physics of the wedges, the front and back ends of the ships are open.
Ships are also optimized for old-style broadside combat.
A captains worst nightmare would be for an enemy ship to cross their 'T' and be subject to a full 'down the throat' or 'up the kilt' shot, where the only protections are conventional metal armor.
Missiles have a smaller but much more powerful version of the wedge drive, and anti missile defenses involve launching other missiles. The purpose of this is that if any wedges collide, it will completely annihilate both missiles. Even if one missile has no wedge, the gravitational forces will be sufficient to rip the enemy missile apart.

My point is this: If we could somehow manipulate gravity like that, space combat would be a cool proposition.
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Re: The physics of space battle

Post by Abstractness on Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:22 am

First "scientific" paper which mentions my name somewhere:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6V3R1KJVnc_WlNUX1VyRjF4d0U
Since those artilects will build an exoplanetary base independently from us, maybe this will trigger an interstellar war.
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Re: The physics of space battle

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