Regarding Rookies

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Regarding Rookies

Post by Loki on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:00 am

Inspired by an inspiring post by MJMerchant, aka Death Merchant.

mjmerchant25 wrote:
imda wrote:If you really want to chew some newbs, it's actually the FH-90, however this ship like the FM-25, is only effective in the hands of a pro.

I you want to chew on noobs, it doesn't matter what you fly. They are noobs! If you need a special ship to rack up huge kill counts, then you have problems. Let the noobs get better by shooting other noobs. If you want to get better, then start targeting the best players in the game. If there are only noobs in game, fly a Mamba so they don't feel overwhelmed, or fly up behind them and only shoot off half their shields. Let some other noob get the kill.

If we continually pound on noobs, they won't come come back. When you score 45+ kills in your FH-250, the new guy you shot down 10 times will get pissed and not come back. Yes your Swordfish and Barracuda are badass, but save them for games with lots of aces in them.

This has been my philosophy for months now and it's awesome to see others doing it all on their own.
Show rookies some respect, drop some gameplay tips and the forum URL in the lobby, and don't just mow them down in your most expensive death machine; you're just encouraging nuke spam and ragequitting.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by imda on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:59 am

I think we are on the same page. While I can't say I haven't face-rolled some newbs, I do adjust my game-play for the competition including..

Switching sides pre-match when it's clearly unbalanced.

Leaving matches in which it is a cakewalk.

Using lower cost ships, I have them all now, sometimes it's fun to not use the same ship after dieing.

Bounty hunting, sometimes you'll have just 1 ace per side, let the newbs duel it out and play cat and mouse with each other.



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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:18 am

There are more and more ppl understanding this thread. Smile

I just feel guilty, when i'm not considering this in the game. But... Sometimes i feel evil inside. Well... than comes armageddon for them.

And 1 more thing. I told it before, and i will keep it telling, if posts keep poping up in this matter.

I speak for myself, not because i'm selfish and so proud of myself, just because i m only sure about what i feel.

I was N00b too. I was raped so many times before i got to the point to learn how to tap the boost, how to use dumb rockets, etc. U cannot play all the time like an angel keeping their point of view prior.

Good pilots only grow under pressure, im sure of it. U can see it from the very first time, who worth the effort, and who is not. U see them raspawning after each failure, trying to get their revenge, not matter the cost. They don't just fly forward, not noticing screen edge infos about incoming threats. Some of them don't even move, after getting shots...

I simply don't fell sorry about mindless N00bs, who show no sign of effort on evading, shooting, manouvering... Let them go... Kill them all.

But when i see someone keep tracking me down, as soon as he \ she (girls really do the fight someday. Smile ) sees me, i just feel respect immediately, and THAN, only than i feel something, that makes me giving advices, and some handicap to them, by not killing them asap. Smile If he listens, responds and try to do as adviced... Now that worth only the effort.

I can type so many names, who became good fighters from nowhere... They were raped so many times before by me, now they can kill me any time if they really want...

The others... Go play WoW. Very Happy

Stop acting like angels... U are not, and i'm sure of it, playing 100% in that style won't do any good on longer terms.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Nightwing on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:22 pm

The only times that I attack noobs is when there aren't any other aces in the match, OR if said noob has a flag in CTF. Even then, I give them a handicap by hanging more than 1500m away from them. At that range, it is VERY difficult for me to hit them with my beams. (I enjoy being a Nighthawk cannoneer...)

I like it even better if I'm in a 1v >5 furball, with at least three aces... Those matches are fun!
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by MJ on Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:39 pm

OK, I am no angle. When I first started playing and I unlocked my Piranha, I would take great joy in wiping the floor with noobs. But, honestly that quickly lost it's appeal. I find it much more satisfying to tangle with folks who know what they are doing. In S&D matches it helps your team win when you send the other teams best shooters to respawn more then when you send their lowest back to the carrier.

Yes, I'll shoot a noob if he's shooting at me, or if I catch him on the tail of a teammate. But, I'll make an effort to run away from a noob if I know I've shot them down twice before.

Adama, you are a skilled player. You can be a challenge to anyone in the game, but you are one of the biggest abusers of new players that I have seen. I have seen countless games where you pounded on noobs in your A-80. Even when your team was up by 30 kills, you would refuse requests from your teammates to tone it down or switch ships. This is detrimental to the game in the long run. I've watched noobs quit after you pounded on them. I might have left this game when I was new, if the players treated me the way you treat new players. This is a game, it is supposed to be fun for everyone. You say you were raped by good players when you were new, how much fun was that? Why do you want to perpetuate that environment? Yes, playing against skilled players makes the new players better, but scare them away and the game is never going to grow.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Nostromo on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:17 pm

There is a great deal of difference between, "High pressure," game environment where players become better and learn from their mistakes, which creates better competition for us Aces. But, If you take those people who might have become useful and engaged players in our game and then put them in a, "no win," situation, you kill this game's future. My example is HowitzerNAM and his A80 on Broadside hiding inside his carrier sniping every F-3 with impunity. People will not continue to participate in a game where they feel that all it takes is one, "pay-to-win," player to lock a game. No one likes games that are, "Pay-to-win," in the first place and by rolling over new guys constantly you encourage a poor stereotype for our, if not already, failing game.

I am safe in saying I am an Ace at the Mamba, I have most of the Luxury craft along with a few other ships. I never actively engage in a Rookie match if I can help it, but I won't leave the match in case an Ace appears and leave my team with a man down. However, I do spend most of my time chatting in Global Chat, helping and advising Rookies on their controls. This doesn't mean I sit out as a free kill, I smoke anyone that approaches me with in 600 meters, but, I also comment on the abilities of the other pilot. Giving advice on how to improve.

I may not be an Angel, but I will never be a villain.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:31 am

Good talking here. Smile

It was a long ago mjmerchant25, when i abused A80. I am one of the biggest "haters" nowadays of that ship. I use it only, when my team is being pushed back to it's carrier. For fun. Camping. A laugh a lot watching ppl run on my lock ons... Leaving the carrier a few sec. to breath. Smile

I am the one, who asks ppl to switch to lighter fighters, when newbies are out there in great numbers, i like using mamba too, having lots of kills in it too. I hate using superior fighters in those games. I switch back only, when aces show up and start to use X99, etc, no matters i ask them to switch. But sometimes no request is needed. they see me respwning after each death in a Mamba...they switch to it too. The better ones. Smile

It must have been a long time ago u've seen me raping newbies in an A80 my friend. Smile Maybe it is FM25 nowadays. XD

And i'm still saying, that treating them like puppies won't help. I'm not saying i'm not giving them handicap sometimes, but i still stand for the FACT imo, that they grow under pressure... Kartboy, traviu, Peelark, Kimkathelkia (or what...), etc. They keep coming and getting more and more success. Never gave them handicap as i'm doing nowadays.... As i never had that u are mentioning above. I understand ur pov, but not only here, in real life it doesn't work as long as i lived so far and experienced.

My experiences with players tell me to be rather evil to them than angel... Giving advices is good. But a very few listens only...

But i give it a try. I try to be more patient with them, giving more advices. If it will work, i salut u mj. Smile

Cadets would love u mj, but mine would be much better sodiers. Smile Razz
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by necrio on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:42 am

I don't find killing new players interesting, so I go after the better ones Very Happy

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:56 am

necrio wrote:I don't find killing new players interesting, so I go after the better ones Very Happy

That is a thing, that we all agree with. Smile
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Nightwing on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:15 pm

Adama wrote:
necrio wrote:I don't find killing new players interesting, so I go after the better ones Very Happy

That is a thing, that we all agree with. Smile

Yeah... When I'm playing, I usually go after the 'super-aces' like Landon, MJ, and Adama...
I also sometimes find myself as the target of a minimum of four aces at a time VERY often in-game...
But hey, I like being targeted. It just means that others acknowledge me as a threat.
It just occurred to me: Alot of MB matches sometimes devolve into dogfights where reputation is everything...
Has anybody else noticed that?
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by MJ on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:48 pm

Super-Ace? No my title is more like "That Annoying guy who keeps shooting me in the back instead of fighting fair".

Adama, thanks for seeing the light. I guess it has been a while since I've seen you in action. I haven't had the free time to play MoonBreakers like I have wanted to for the last couple weeks.

I don't mean to coddle new players forever. I just mean to cut them some slack until they develope some basic skills. After they have some basic fundamentals, then they are fair game. That is when their education really begins.

In the real world I am a professional pilot. My first paying job as a pilot, was teaching others to fly single engine aircraft at a flight school in northern Indiana. Most of the other instructors were real hardasses. They would scream at students and make unrealistic demands of them. I never raised my voice at my students and I made it a point to remain calm, even when they were doing their best to try and kill me, when they were learning to land. People stop learning when when they are frustrated and angry. I have seen this first hand. In the game angry, frustrated players stop playing. At my old job it led to students not paying for more lessons (this is bad when you get paid per lesson). How did I stack up against the hardass instructors? Their average student soloed in 20 hours, and they had a first time private pilot pass rate of 70%. My average student soloed in 12 hours and my students had a 100% first time pass rate. Not one of my students ever got lost, or was involved in an accident or incident. Not one of my fellow instructors could make the same claim. So, careful with the weak cadet talk, my methods bring results.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by eltazar on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:03 am

nice topic, but unfortunately, there is no noobs to read this Smile (just kidding)

I have to say that I'm kind an Adama's guy... when I played this for the first time, I tried hard but get killed instantly, and I was happy to see anything else than a 0 in my kill tab after the game. I was upset, but than I realized that instead of blaming "aces" who constantly killing me, I have to blame myself - for not to be a good pilot as they are. I started to learn - not to shoot at a 3k distance, using another noobs as a lure, hanging at the stronger pilot's wing, defend carrier in CA fight... and the credits came along, as the new ship and equipment. and I'm proud to tell that I never buy a single HE (sorry for the devs Very Happy )... currently 2 complete upgraded ships and now upgrading FH-200...

I do believe that it is better to throw a guy into the pool to teach him how to swim instead holding his hand near the shore... yes, there are "renegades", but be honest - would you rather fly with a guy who is hammered through the thousand of battles and thousands of deaths instead of a coward who leads his a.ss into the safety whenever the fun starts to be a little bloody? I already make my chose... and will still kill anything that gets in front of my beams, regardless its status, rank or shield level... brave and courage wins the war, not honor!


Last edited by eltazar on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:43 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by eltazar on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:13 am

mjmerchant25 wrote:

In the real world I am a professional pilot... So, careful with the weak cadet talk, my methods bring results.

I must disagree... this is not a real world, its a game you have to play and die as hard as you can. yes, instead of yelling at the poor fellas with the flag who does not know they have it you can ask them gentle to deliver the flag to the carrier, but in this case I'm cursing the devs to not let us do some friendly fire...

its all about skills, but instead of a real world you have infinite numbers of lives. In a real airplane I agree with you attitude, there is no better way, but in a game I suppose there is nothing less useless than holding someone's hand (and get killed either)

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:34 am

Wow MJ... Lucky guy u are. Smile Ur teaching methods are respectable, i do the same at my job with the employees and trainees under me, and yes. It works and it makes a much better atmosphere here and we do our job more effective.

But it is so hard to find and teach those ppl, who worth the effort in a 15 sec. action oriented game. I admire ur patience, but u are more advanced in that thing than most of us, as an instructor.

I tried it, and failed in the first 2 attempts. No reaction to my advices nor to my actions in game. They did not try to evade, to change course after being hit, etc. I tried out, that i overtook him after hitting them a bit. They didn't even try to hit me. Using rockets after my advice? Hell, NO!

But... If there are many newbies, i will keep trying, i promise. But 2...When there are 1 or 2 aces, i get as many newbies as many tries to hit me on the way to those aces.

It will be hard. It is a game. I play for fun and big explosions. Paying attention to little kiddos here is not what i like the game for. I have my everyday life, and if i want to press the off button, i will. And than, it means PEW PEW PEW....BOOM BOOM BOOM...ARGH ARGH ARGH and HARR HARR HARR! Very Happy

I grow up in this game as el_tazar told us. Good to see, that i'am in the top scorers list in almost every games. And i know, that it wouldn't have happened, if good pilots have been nice to me at the beggining.

I remember how unbelievable it was to see them playing the style they play now... Lol... I looked at them like half gods... And that gave me power, imagining myself being able to get them. Smile

Ahahhahaha! Smile

But...There are always stronger ppl out there. I still need a lot to improve. Harr harr. Smile

EDIT: I didn't want to be rude, so i didn't write it down, but i agree with el_tazar. He posted while i was typing. Smile I see the point of MJ, but be honest. It is a game. After a hard day it is no good babysitting there too. Smile But i'm telling. I understand the POV. Smile A bit. Smile
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Nostromo on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:36 pm

People see a free game, and they come to try it out. Many are just curious, others are looking for a Hardcore space combat simulation, and few are lingering individuals that use the game to vent frustrations.

The appeal in hammering Rookies is great, I mean who wouldn't like to look at their kills listing 50 + at the end of a game? But, smashing new guys comes at the price of monotony or, worse yet, evolution to trolling. How long before you get sick of not seeing any real competition and long for that ever present goal of being the best? Or when will the desire to just be another Testroyer, a CTF troll, becomes too great?

I look forward to to possible time that I can look at one of those Rookies and think, 'I help'd this newbi go from flying into roks to dueling with <Reapers> and Praetorians on an even exchange. Damn I'm a badass!' Of course there are going to be plenty of toons who won't respond or even ask questions. But, it's the ones who do that I have hope for...
(insert dramatic wind and light show with crashing waves and NC standing impressively on top of a rocky outcropping) afro
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Loki on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:09 pm

eltazar wrote:nice topic, but unfortunately, there is no noobs to read this Smile (just kidding)

My point was not to have rookies read it, but veteran players...
If we happen to get a new player stop by and read it, they at least get an idea of who they can ask for help in game.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by juice on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:35 pm

'm not so good with 'teaching'..... so i drop the message boards url when asked questions in chat, or when someone says 'i'm new!'.... lol

i think the only time i ever had a 'learning' session was waaaaay back when there was only a handful of us playing.... 'x' and i went through types of turns for different situations.

in game, i try to stick to bounties and aces/vets
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:06 am

I "hate" aces! No

They always keep killing me... No
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by eltazar on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:51 am

Loki wrote:
eltazar wrote:nice topic, but unfortunately, there is no noobs to read this Smile (just kidding)

My point was not to have rookies read it, but veteran players...
If we happen to get a new player stop by and read it, they at least get an idea of who they can ask for help in game.

yeah, I know, but I have to dig in it a little Very Happy

just one more thing - MB is not a "teach-me-how-to-flight" game, it is "try, die and try again". if a practice map or something like that available it would be great, but since there is only one kind of learning there is nothing to do about it except embrace death and make that bitch your mistress...

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by eltazar on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:15 am

Nostromo_Crew wrote: Or when will the desire to just be another Testroyer, a CTF troll, becomes too great?

I look forward to to possible time that I can look at one of those Rookies and think, 'I help'd this newbi go from flying into roks to dueling with <Reapers> and Praetorians on an even exchange. Damn I'm a badass!' Of course there are going to be plenty of toons who won't respond or even ask questions. But, it's the ones who do that I have hope for...
(insert dramatic wind and light show with crashing waves and NC standing impressively on top of a rocky outcropping) afro

do not recall me that mf, he pissed me off yesterday so hard I have to take three shots of plum schnapps Smile

and this is a really nice idea, we plant many seeds but not all of them raise to the nice flower Smile

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Nostromo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:30 pm

Adama wrote:I "hate" aces! No

They always keep killing me... No


Bro, it's cause you're one too!
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by Adama on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:09 pm

Nostromo_Crew wrote:
Adama wrote:I "hate" aces! No

They always keep killing me... No


Bro, it's cause you're one too!

I don't consider myself an ace. Im just a player who played a lot. Smile Thats all. Maybe talent is needed too, but from this view, there are more talented guys out there than me.

It is much better being a useful part of a team, than a killing machine... Just like u did today. U defended against several bombers, while we could destroy the carrier. U had less points, but ur presence was a must to win. I like that kind of roles in a game. Smile Support and maintenance is an essence in war. Smile
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by RA2lover on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:26 am

and logistics is always a pain.

when there are 4+ players i try to let them be, but when there are fewer than that i don't. the idea is forcing them to join other servers so they can learn the basics of teamwork.

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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by the-anger on Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:40 am

since we're down to one server, a prudent bump is in order.

i've been MIA for a while now, recently started playing regularly after War Thunder started circling the drain with the PS4 clog currently preventing a loss. rant for another time and forum.

point being i've seen such bastadry in-game that hasn't changed one bit, disappointingly from some people on this forum. the list of irritants is small but key things are:

understanding the difference between a brawl and a duel - this is a hard game to learn without any instructions, or official guides, or willing helpful players. ganging up is a viable tactic against those you can't take down on your own. against those you can, however, is shameful, especially when you're not the first to engage. if it is mission-critical to take someone out, granted you should, but where you can spare the luxury of letting a teammate chase after an enemy, why not?

inability to recognize overkill - easiest to demonstrate by example. a game a few weeks back, one person decided to whip out an A80 against mambas, the usual goings on really. rather than sarcastically snapping at the player, i just asked why they used it (well, at first anyway). "stop whining, you have an A80 on the team" (paraphrasing). says it all.

inability to level the playing field - (in S&D) if blue team has 40 kills, and red has 10, chances are you don't need to play at the pace / intensity you were to get to that point. quite often this arises due to the choice of ships against players that do not have all / most ships unlocked and/or upgraded. typically a one-sided fight is not fun, it is simply tedious, and if you're not challenging yourself in the process you are either one of the best players in the game flying the worst possible ship for the task, or are cheapening the game for those on the receiving end. throwing rocks off a mountain onto fellow climbers achieves 5 seconds of laughs and isolation.

oh, and to clarify, i've deliberately flown in some games being the least possible threat i can be while still helping out the team, to be responded with (by players who later accuse me of overkill when i jump into ships to counter their nonsense) that this is a boring match or game, or they aren't challenged. well if you're not challenged by flying panthers/twolfs in CA in a team against one player, CTF in a G5 or bomber against a team that can't keep up, no f****** sh*t you're not challenged. grow some kahones, grab them to be sure they're real, and if you're feeling the pain well that's a start to learning something isn't it.

this is no threat in any sense, but i have repeatedly seen players disconnect in droves once this behavior starts. the game is perilously close to running out of players as it is. that's my final opinion on this, and i hold nothing back against people i see doing this. i am not an authority, simply a very irate gamer who doesn't throw stones in glass houses, unless provoked.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

Post by the-anger on Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:12 am

no one reads, no one cares, so be it. ill be putting up screenshots to name and shame, because i could care less at this point.
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Re: Regarding Rookies

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