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Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:38 pm

Answering in-game questions. Fire away.

Quick note: If I find your question is inappropriate, I will remove it.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Nyxy on Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:22 pm

How can I get the most out of my drift turns?

I find often that when I dog fight, and pass an opponent, when I turn around, he's already facing me, guns firing.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Nyxy wrote:How can I get the most out of my drift turns?

I find often that when I dog fight, and pass an opponent, when I turn around, he's already facing me, guns firing.

Hi Nyxy,

The technique is pretty similar regardless of the ship you fly (even bombers to an extent), but depending on what you're flying, some ships simply turn faster than yours, particularly when flown by certain players. I'm thinking of X, Abstractness, or Deviant Saint, who I have a hard time keeping up with.

Ships with a high(er) turn rate; All light fighters, X99-Merlin.

So;
- max out your afterburner fuel tanks first, then work on your afterburner speed and afterburner recharge rate; you are dead when your tank is empty.
- allow yourself some time to recharge
- keep your speed up between turns; I constantly tap the afterburner button when not drifting. This keeps you harder to lead laterally (avoids getting shot from the side/top/bottom) and ensures you can start to drift hard when you need to, and is easier to outrun or evade missiles
- going faster in a drift turn increases the radius to the turn, so lay off the afterburner while 'dueling'
- your throttle doesn't have to stay maxed all the time; sometimes you have to slow down to keep up
- try zooming out with "Z" (zoom back in with "X" )


Last edited by Loki on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by jazzycat on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:03 am

Heya Loki,

Thanks for stepping up as one of our resident experts, and possibly one of the game's longest playing regulars. On behalf of the player-community, your help as well as that of the other veterans is greatly appreciated.


Q:

At the moment I'm trying to work on doing a full CTF lap in an F-3 but always seem to get busted/killed and/or out of boost just before I enter the asteroid cover in get-away mode in the Broken Moon and Asteroid Field maps.

I can boost-tap and stealth from home base to enemy territory reasonably ok and usually go in with about ~70% tanks depending on the map if I don't wait for 100%; should I wait for a fuller tank before going in? Try hiding around the dead-zones on the carrier more before heading out? Pray more? Lol...

I'm confident I've got the theory right but putting it into practice... have been trying different things several goes at a time from everything I've read with mixed results (eg. better dodging around carrier-exit fire, flag running in-between respawns, flag-running away from the respawn flight-path, etc), and the few successes I've had seem more by luck than by design which is driving me nuts. I want consistency, dammit!

So yeah - full CTF flag-run in a Mamba; is it possible, how is it possible, and if I'm solo with no team-support or the other team has a Viper or Sidewinder should I just give up? Start saving up for a different ship? Boo!

(Not that I've ever given up so far; I'll go down fighting... but damn it's a far sight better flying in with support or laying down cover-fire for the FC).

Thanks! Jazzy

PS - just checked the keyboard repeat rate and it was mid-way; will see if changing that makes any difference...
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by longshot on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:51 am

Loki wrote:- try zooming out with "Z" (zoom back in with "X" )

Nice tip. Zoomed right out you really do have a good view of the action. You see enemies earlier, which means you respond earlier whether attacking or evading. Otoh if you stay with that zoom your accuracy can be pretty ordinary, and I am always forgetting to zoom back in again when closing for a kill. Why oh why aren't those buttons configurable?
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:26 am

Note: This post was written before CTF was changed to 10 flag captures required to win a match. When there was only 3 required, you could take a little more time with your approach. You still can, though you make your approach while someone else is running back to base with the flag.

jazzycat wrote:
I can boost-tap and stealth from home base to enemy territory reasonably ok and usually go in with about ~70% tanks depending on the map if I don't wait for 100%; should I wait for a fuller tank before going in? Try hiding around the dead-zones on the carrier more before heading out?

So yeah - full CTF flag-run in a Mamba; is it possible, how is it possible, and if I'm solo with no team-support or the other team has a Viper or Sidewinder should I just give up? Start saving up for a different ship? Boo!

Thanks! Jazzy


Hi Jazzy,
Back when people really complained about the V-66 in CTF, I used to make Mamba runs to shut them up, often beating out the opposition's V66. Then I got called a cheater or hacker for going 'too fast for too long'. That's how the afterburner tapping technique got released into the wild.
Now CTF has become much harder as the general population becomes more skilled and learns how to play this game mode, regardless of ship type. It's becoming more rare for me to make a full flag-run on any map except Broadsides. But it gets my heart racing in ways the other game types can't!

A lot depends on who is defending, what they're flying...

The Approach:
They weren't looking in my direction, but that's why I'd chosen this direction to make my approach. That A80 would make things difficult on the escape, but it was slow. The carrier guns would only have a few short seconds to alert them before I found cover again, this time on the carrier itself...
- have a good look at the asteroid layout on your way in (particularly in Rock Field) and plan an escape route that will take you where the cover is
- have a good look at the ships the defenders are flying (watch for names around the carrier, check the scoreboard)
- be sneaky and patient in your approach if your ship is fragile
- if your attempt is not the first flag run of the match, approach while the defenders are chasing someone else and wait for the next flag
- Don't Panic.

The Grab:
I sat within arms reach of the flag for thirty, agonizing seconds, waiting for my afterburner and shields to recharge. I could hear and even see a few defenders buzzing all around while searching for me. They couldn't find me, but I was nearly ready. That A80 drifted by and was now going the wrong direction...
- get your boost tanks closer to 100% before snatching the flag
- Don't Panic.

The Escape: Part 1
I could feel the helium-three slowing me, but that didn't matter. I was running close enough to the carrier hull that their point defense turrets didn't have a chance and the hull topography was preventing missile locks. Machine gun fire rained down from everywhere. I fought the urge to gun it, but had to wait until there was no more carrier to hide under. Out in open space, your afterburner fuel tank is your only cover. The A80 was still two turns behind on the wrong side of the carrier. I was starting to run out of hull to hide beside, but could see my next destination...
- choose a route away from the carrier that will give you the most cover; often, this is through the carrier hangar
- fly in a confusing pattern but always towards cover!
- Line-of-Sight is important; break it early and often. Features on the carrier hull can prevent a missile lock!
- the flag is heavy and reduces your speed enough to make you slower than missiles and easier to run down
- Don't Panic.

The Escape: Part 2
One pursuer down, caught in the guide struts in front of the hangar. Two missiles from the A80 evaded by breaking line of sight with an asteroid. Still five thousand meters to go. The flag's beacon made it impossible to truly hide, but staying behind cover was almost as good. My heart was starting to feel like it was going to claw itself out of my chest, but I was grinning like a madman! Easy on the afterburner. Hug this asteroid, then jet across to the next. The cargo was heavy, costing me more fuel with every burst. Hopefully it was rookies chasing me. Hopefully they'd run themselves out of juice and I'd leave them far behind. Hopefully...
- Asteroids are officially your new best friend in CTF
- get to know the different types and learn their shapes (there aren't many)
- watch which ones move! These can help by crushing your enemies or can hurt by crushing you
- learn how to fly close enough to an asteroid that you can almost hear scraping
- look ahead and try to plan a route, then follow it. Add variation if they're right on you
- use your afterburner until you break line of sight, then ease up on it
- try to figure out where your allies are. Hope they're already on the way
- check behind you with the Rear Look key (default is "R")
- avoid being predictable; yes, you have to get to cover, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the next cover closer to your carrier if there are a lot of pursuers
- as the chase wears on, you may actually find it easier as more of your pursuers run out of afterburner fuel. Use this opportunity to recharge yours a bit because there's usually a thousand meters of open space between the last asteroid and your carrier
- Don't Panic.

Sometimes the best you can do is get the flag far enough away from the carrier and out where any of your teammates can pick it up instead of just the ones who know how to evade carrier fire.

Sometimes a defender or group of defenders will drag the match to a standstill.


Last edited by Loki on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:36 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by jazzycat on Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:29 am

Don't Panic.
Eh... how did you know? Razz Probably one of the most important things of all, cause if you're not calm enough to swiftly, calmly analyze the situation and pick a course of action - too late, you're toast!

Sometimes the best you can do is get the flag far enough away from the carrier and out where any of your teammates can pick it up instead of just the ones who know how to evade carrier fire.
This last point may be more important than you may think - keeping the flag "in play" and moving back to the capture point whilst keeping up a tight defense or pressure on the EFC (Enemy Flag Carrier) can win the match. If they haven't capped it, then they haven't scored.

Thankyou for the quick reply Loki, awesome write-up! king
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:07 pm

Drifting.

Here's how it is.

Don't turn up or down, but go left/right instead; there's more room to push your mouse further horizontally.

Keep your speed up for harder drifting (see my tips for better drifting that Nyxy posted).

Turn left or right while holding down one of the roll keys (Left Turn uses Right Roll & vice versa). For really hard turns, push your mouse into the corner of the screen.

How to tell that you're doing it right; you should see your ship turn sideways. You should see the horizon stay level on your screen (no roll). Easiest place to see/practice this is launching on the Broadsides map; when exiting from the hangar, hold down the Left Roll key and put your mouse to the right edge of the screen. Alternately, you can get shot a few times until you're smoking, then try drifting and check out your smoke trail. You can draw a circle with it.

You can practice drifting & shooting around your own turrets; they're stationary and won't fire back at you. You'll look like a crazy person, but that's ok. Hint: don't fly straight at the turret, but approach with the turret at 2 or 10 o'clock and keep your speed up (that means a touch of afterburner) before you start to drift. In almost any ship (even bombers) you can hold the drift long enough to overheat your guns.

Once you get some practice at shooting your own turrets, you can find a quiet server and practice on the enemy turrets. This will make you better at this game.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by X on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:17 am

If you guys need help on drifting, let me know on Steam. I can give you guys a little training lesson if necessary.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by SuPerKen on Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:42 am

X wrote:If you guys need help on drifting, let me know on Steam. I can give you guys a little training lesson if necessary.

That's how I learned... those 1 on 1 practices with you. Take him up on the offer peeps.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Ferc Polo on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:54 am

Having finally purchased the FH-200...no wonder you guys like it...it's drifty.

Still no A-80 though. Smile
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Nyxy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:33 pm

Dear Ask-Loki;

I'm planning on hosting a small party at my house, 4 people including myself. We are going to have a Wayne's World marathon. I'm wondering what I should make them for dinner without going over-budget. I'd like the meal to be fun, but also filling and snackable. Also, I should keep it around $20.

Sincerely;

The-Wayne's-World-Afternoon-Team
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:48 pm

Nyxy wrote:Dear Ask-Loki;

I'm planning on hosting a small party at my house, 4 people including myself. We are going to have a Wayne's World marathon. I'm wondering what I should make them for dinner without going over-budget. I'd like the meal to be fun, but also filling and snackable. Also, I should keep it around $20.

Sincerely;

The-Wayne's-World-Afternoon-Team

Dear Nyxy,

All foods should satisfy the munchies your 'refreshments' will likely inspire. Red Rope licorice is recommended, as well as M&Ms, provided nobody has to be beaten with shoes to get them. Doritos, Coca-Cola, and Nuprin (Little, yellow, different) will help mix it up and keep things interesting. Round it all off with Cream of Sum-Yung-Guy.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Nyxy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:01 am

Loki wrote:

Dear Nyxy,

All foods should satisfy the munchies your 'refreshments' will likely inspire. Red Rope licorice is recommended, as well as M&Ms, provided nobody has to be beaten with shoes to get them. Doritos, Coca-Cola, and Nuprin (Little, yellow, different) will help mix it up and keep things interesting. Round it all off with Cream of Sum-Yung-Guy.

Haha, classic. Now I just need to find a brandy glass
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Agent of Change on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:37 am

Dear Ask-Loki,

I have developed, what I am concerned is unhealthy, homicidal urge towards bomber pilots who aren't near carriers. Now I'm a normally well balanced sociopath who hates everyone equally but recently all things are not equal and I'm focusing my sudden random violence...

It's not even random anymore... Can you help me out?

Bummed-About-Bomber-Busting
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Ferc Polo on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:24 pm

Agent of Change wrote:Dear Ask-Loki,

I have developed, what I am concerned is unhealthy, homicidal urge towards bomber pilots who aren't near carriers. Now I'm a normally well balanced sociopath who hates everyone equally but recently all things are not equal and I'm focusing my sudden random violence...

Ferc Polo can confirm this.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Snubby on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:55 pm

I love you the Loki
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Twilight Sparkle™ on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:50 am

Dear Ask-Loki.
FH-250s bug me with their high cone of fire. anything to do to defeat one who is already facing you?
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by longshot on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:13 am

fly a grizzly and shoot back?
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:02 pm

Ferc Polo wrote:
Agent of Change wrote:Dear Ask-Loki,

I have developed, what I am concerned is unhealthy, homicidal urge towards bomber pilots who aren't near carriers. Now I'm a normally well balanced sociopath who hates everyone equally but recently all things are not equal and I'm focusing my sudden random violence...

Ferc Polo can confirm this.

Dear Ferc Polo and Agent of Change,
I've also noticed these kind of symptoms, starting around the time of the Remote Detonation feature. Previously, bombers in most rounds of S&D were regarded as fairly harmless, likely rookies. After the update (in particular, during the first couple of days when the damage increased with distance from the blast epicenter), suddenly these 'harmless' rookies were granted the power of Elminster's Ever-Expanding Fireball, racking up enormous kill-counts well beyond their normal abilities while their allies were left shooting at ion clouds instead of enemies.

To continue with D&D references, the old rule of Kill the Wizard First (where 'wizard' eventually became interchangeable with anything that can dish out an Area of Effect attack) now applies to bombers. Even better, the bombers are limited to launching a torpedo that you can actually shoot down if you're quick enough, and the torp takes 4 or 5 seconds to arm before it can detonate. After all that, you've got 10-15 seconds to find the bomber before they can launch their instakill warhead again.

Tips for taking out bombers;
- watch for nuke explosions in the middle of your S&D kill-fest
- look for the torp-fisher at the edges of where the combat zone is heaviest
- watch for a bountied player hiding off to the side
- check behind asteroids
- Prioritize any enemy torps (these will be the ones marked on your HUD and radar)
- never fly straight towards a bomber's nose; treat them like a carrier turret and evade
- bombers are tough, so bring a friend, and save up your guns/rockets/missiles until you're guaranteed to hit
- don't slow down and sit behind them; you'll be an easy target for the bomber's friends and your guns will wear down to uselessness very quickly
- make firing passes at them; this will allow your guns to cool and keep you mobile
- watch out for the Bomber Bounce counter; you can predict it by watching for them to aim directly at something big and accelerating
- don't slow down when they do this; you'll be an easy target for the bomber's guns
- change direction and accelerate, then resume making passes

Particularly fast bombers (Panther and Timberwolf) can nearly outrun SR Missiles, or at least keep ahead of them long enough for them to burn out. These are the ones that can slip away again and again. In this case, bring a friend by asking for help using the in-game chat; you're almost guaranteed to get a few takers if the bomber has been fishing for a while.

Sometimes these torp-fishers like to hide under their carrier's guns (something that can get you kicked from the Praetorians, btw)
In this case, approach them from the rear and hit them hard with everything you've got on the first pass; you might scare them out into the open or into firing a torp in the wrong direction.

If you make torp-fishing an unprofitable exercise by ganking enemy bombers ASAP, they'll give up eventually and play 'fair'.


Last edited by Loki on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:35 pm

Twilight Sparkle wrote:Dear Ask-Loki.
FH-250s bug me with their high cone of fire. anything to do to defeat one who is already facing you?

Dear Twilight Sparkle,

This has been a problem since the first player purchased a FH-200 Piranha (i.e. Day One). With their high RoF quad-machine guns and SR Tracking Missiles, they can blow away 2-3 Mambas (or 18-ish Sidewinders) in one pass.

Many of the same tactics for evading a carrier turret apply here.
- be aware of your surroundings; this means watching for incoming fighters or missiles, knowing where the nearest cover is and your approximate distance to either carrier
- don't fly in a straight line; you can fly unpredictably through an entire wave of oncoming opponents with barely a scratch! (I do it all the time)
- beware the incoming SR Missile; you may be able to shoot it down if you're quick enough, but that means turning straight towards the incoming fire, so be careful
- the safest place is behind them (applies to any ship) or behind cover; no line of sight means no SR Missiles
- afterburner is your friend; the faster you fly towards them, the less time they have to aim at you
- use your drift/strafe turns as you approach them; you'll usually be more prepared for it than they will, so use the time wisely
- once you're behind them, stay there and give them everything you've got (when I say stay there, I mean turn yourself into a hyper-malignant kidney cancer until you wither them away into a husk that leaves their friends and relatives crying)
- finish them quickly; their friends will arrive and take you out. The only thing you've got going for you here is that you're sticking to the tail of someone who is madly trying to evade you
- if you get caught in a drift-duel with a Swordfish, remember that they'll be itching to use their overpowered afterburners, so avoid using yours. See my comments about improving your drift turns.

The Swordfish can quickly outrun most fighters short of a Mamba, Sidewinder, and Viper, so unless you're in one of these, you'll be hard-pressed to finish them off (Cobras and Kraits are excellent for taking down runners, btw). Nyxy has made an art of high-speed attack runs through a dogfight and zooming away to recharge guns and afterburner. Even worse (for us), he likes to come in from the side and not head to head. Best advice for this is to watch where he goes, chase him down and take him out while he's low on afterburner fuel.

Watch your tail out there Smile
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by SomeKittens on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:26 pm

Dear Loki,

How are you doing? I'm sorry to hear about your massive defeat at the hands of the Avengers. I'd like to know how to best attack a carrier using a medium/heavy ship. I've got the hang of circling the ship with a Mamba but that doesn't seem to work with a slower ship.

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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:31 am

SomeKittens wrote:Dear Loki,

How are you doing? I'm sorry to hear about your massive defeat at the hands of the Avengers. I'd like to know how to best attack a carrier using a medium/heavy ship. I've got the hang of circling the ship with a Mamba but that doesn't seem to work with a slower ship.

Hi SomeKittens,
You can't keep a good Asgardian down. It's all part of a larger plan, actually. Wheels within wheels and all Wink

With the latest update to Carriers & Turrets, machine guns are much less effective than they used to be against the carrier, which makes perfect sense but is frustrating for the moment while we scramble to come up with new tactics.

First bit of advice; Stay out of the hangar!

Circling the carrier with a Piranha was pretty easy and made quick work of the turrets (easier & faster than the Mamba, actually), though now it takes a long time to use machine guns to clear out turrets for your bomber allies.

My recommendation for turret killers is now the FH-90 Stingray (1 pass!), and the M-10 Krait (2 passes) for fastest turret killing. I have not had the opportunity to try out something with Fast Cannons yet. Make heavy use of rockets or the Heavy Cannon.

Update: Recent buffs to the Sidewinder now made this my favorite turret killer due to "Rokkit Spam!" Cooldown time on the Sidewinder's rockets is now 2 seconds, which means you can unload 5 rockets into a turret in the time it takes a Mamba to launch 2. It will take you a few passes, but you usually get more opportunity to blast away at turrets because you can outrun everything. Beware of beamships and SR or LR Tracking missiles; this thing is fragile.

If you do not have any of these craft, ask your teammates if they'll support your turret attacks; two fighters do twice as much damage. Play fair, though, and don't just sweep in behind someone else and take all the turret kills for yourself.

Once you have the desired number of turrets eliminated, forget anything but bombers; you simply don't have enough time in the match to hope to wipe out a carrier with anything less than torpedoes. It'll take 15 or 16 nukes to bring the beast down, and the math on that tells you that a single bomber will require a minimum of 5 min, 20 seconds of 'alone time' to destroy the carrier, and that's just the required time to get the enough torps fired off. I know it's not how you're supposed to go on dates, but this girl is big enough to handle you and a few friends...


Last edited by Loki on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by longshot on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:35 am

Loki wrote:
SomeKittens wrote: I'm sorry to hear about your massive defeat at the hands of the Avengers.

You can't keep a good Asgardian down. It's all part of a larger plan, actually. Wheels within wheels and all Wink

You're being very relaxed and laid back about it. Low-key, even.
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Re: Ask Loki

Post by Loki on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:17 am

longshot wrote:
Loki wrote:
SomeKittens wrote: I'm sorry to hear about your massive defeat at the hands of the Avengers.

You can't keep a good Asgardian down. It's all part of a larger plan, actually. Wheels within wheels and all Wink

You're being very relaxed and laid back about it. Low-key, even.

I'm saving my soul-crushing maniacal laugh for when I'm the actual ruler of the universe Wink
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