Fast FM-25?

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Fast FM-25?

Post by MJ on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:09 pm

I just played a CTF match where a player named ReD was able to keep up with my G5 when he was flying a NightHawk. Twice he was on my heels as I wound my way around the broken moon asteroid belt. I'm not accusing him of hacking yet, I'm just curious if any of you beam pilots has noticed a speed increase in your FM-25s?
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:25 pm

I'm regularly able to do this in my 'Hawk. The secret is in boost feathering.
But yeah, I know what you mean. ReD is a pretty good pilot. Not as good as some of the 'Super-Aces', maybe, but he's got potential.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by MJ on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:02 am

This was not a case of clever boost feathering. I have been playing quite a while and have never seen anything like this. If a NightHawk doesn't vaporize me before I get to cover, I can leave them in the dust, even lugging that big container around. This guy was able to keep up with a boosting G5 across the entire map. If he's hacking, it wouldn't bother me as much as if some Jackass changed the code for all the FM-25s and unbalanced the game.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by the-anger on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:49 am

it is not impossible depending on the path traveled, especially in broken moon - if you're dodging the asteroids around the outside for example, a nighthawk can keep up flying in a straight line. that said if there is anything fishy going on it's only him and no one else.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Memitim on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:02 pm

I dunno about ReD but for me in FM-25 boost feathering on a full tank will only get me about half of the map, 3/4 at most before tank is empty and even then the speed is not great. I do not think ReD is hacking though, I have played with him in a few games and he is a good pilot. Like the others suggested maybe he took a short cut somehow?

As for changing the code for all the FM-25's I don't think it would be possible without a server side hack and an update. Very illegal and wouldn't be worth getting a few extra kills over. If there is something fishy going on it would be a one off I'm sure.

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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by MJ on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:32 am

Yes, please don't take this as a rant against ReD. I have seen him play several times before and he always played honorably. And, I know this game is buggy and some strange things happen occasionally. Once I played a S&D mission in my FH-100 and scored 42 kills in a match that had several aces who normally spank me pretty hard. These same aces were only scoring 15 or so kills. I was feeling like I just flew the game of my life. In the lobby everybody was bitching about there guns not damaging others like they normally do. I'm sure I looked the the biggest hacker in the world at that point, but anybody who knows me knows that I have about zero computer skill.
This was just one of those things that was really out of the envelope. When I say he was on my heels. I mean he was zig zagging around the asteroids with me and keeping up. I also saw him chasing others and having speed that just isn't normal for the FM-25. It was freaky, but I haven't seen any repeat of this high octane burning NightHawk since I posted this.
I'm curious if any of you have seen odd occurances during game play? Feel free to post them here.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Memitim on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:00 pm

I'm sure its not just me but I'm often having issues with my rockets. They actually "fire" a good second of more after I click sometimes, and same with the detonation. Usually happens on US servers but sometimes on EU as well (I'm in the uk). Internet speed is good, really don't know what causes it.

Oh and the famous zig zaging and shivering thing that ppl with low connection speed sometimes get =] I see that sometimes too.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Loki on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:18 pm

Memitim wrote:I'm sure its not just me but I'm often having issues with my rockets. They actually "fire" a good second of more after I click sometimes, and same with the detonation. Usually happens on US servers but sometimes on EU as well (I'm in the uk). Internet speed is good, really don't know what causes it.

Oh and the famous zig zaging and shivering thing that ppl with low connection speed sometimes get =] I see that sometimes too.

That's lag. The longer your ping, the more time it takes for the missiles or rockets to launch and the more likely it is for you to see others lag-jumping. I see this the most when playing on Australia when my closest server is US East, though I have experienced it on busy days when playing on Euro West.
The lag may not necessarily be on your end; it could be anywhere between your ISP and the MoonBreaker's server.
See Jiel's helpful thread for server locations and how to ping them.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Memitim on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:14 pm

My line is sapped by lots of users sometimes may well be my end thoughba lot of the time its just one person 'jumping'. Can be an issue with beams =p
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by the-anger on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:46 pm

i have to say that turbo nighthawk was simply under lag. i have seen on several occasions zig-zagging that seems to break the speed limits in the game. in practice it is a crappy connection with very unstable ping. it is possible, but unlikely, that ReD's ping went from very high to very low with a horrible packet send rate during the chase - this could appear that hes flying faster while thats going on due to packets arriving into a smaller time-window than when they left.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by LizzyAeon on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:01 pm

I do believe (as many do) that it has to do with you making evasive maneuvers, which would make a longer path for you to travel, while your opponent flies in a straight line.

It gets troublesome for us, g5 pilots, as if we go straight line we're letting our hunter aim with ease. However, moving around slows us down, letting them get closer.

So far, and correct me if I'm wrong, it is possible to destroy the FM-25 before it can shoot a second laser (always talking from the view of a G5), your best chance might be to turn back and shoot all you have at him, however a good player can still evade this attack and make it to destroy you, so you better not miss (which i do a lot =_=)

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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:12 pm

Yeah... Flipping is a good tactic...
I'm not sure how well it would work in the G5, but I can tell you that the FM-25 doesn't flip very well...
It seems to me that the best 'flipper' ship is the F-3...
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by FireOfEarth on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:44 pm

It seems to me that FM-25 is one of the slowest ships in the game, me having it myself. However, straighter routes do make a good amount of sense. And, if I'm allowed to bring a new topic into this, I feel that the G5 is a bit too fast. I feather my f-3 all the time, and even though it's one of the fastest ships in the game, G5 outdistances it by 100s of meters. Anyone feel outraged?
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by the-anger on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:01 pm

FireOfEarth wrote:It seems to me that FM-25 is one of the slowest ships in the game, me having it myself. However, straighter routes do make a good amount of sense. And, if I'm allowed to bring a new topic into this, I feel that the G5 is a bit too fast. I feather my f-3 all the time, and even though it's one of the fastest ships in the game, G5 outdistances it by 100s of meters. Anyone feel outraged?
FM-25 is the slowest ship out of medium and light, and comes 3rd when not counting bombers.

the difference would be the result of different base speeds of both ships (F3,G5), they would take different lengths of time to hit their top speed, and consequently one must expend more boost fuel to keep up than the other, if only slightly more. i don't know which one, stats are around though...
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Abstractness on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:21 am

Before I found this thread I also asked myself if ReD is a hacker, because he vaporized my X99 several times from over 2000 m with one hit. Maybe it was very strong lag + rocket.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:51 pm

It could also be that ReD was taking advantage of the travel time of his weaponry. Depending on the weapon, you can actually fire from just beyond normal range, and still hit.
Since beams have the shortest travel time, you must fire them closer to your max stated range than the machine guns, to give an example.
I believe that it's something like 150m beyond range for a beam, which would bring it to 2110m in the Nighthawk. (1960+150=2110)
Machine gunners, like the Mamba, should be able to start firing at about 200m beyond range, which would be something like 1200m. (1000+200=1200)
Keep in mind that these numbers assume that the combatants are closing head-to-head...

Feel free to correct me if any of my numbers are wrong. I can take it.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Loki on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:35 pm

Nightwing wrote:It could also be that ReD was taking advantage of the travel time of his weaponry. Depending on the weapon, you can actually fire from just beyond normal range, and still hit.
Since beams have the shortest travel time, you must fire them closer to your max stated range than the machine guns, to give an example.
I believe that it's something like 150m beyond range for a beam, which would bring it to 2110m in the Nighthawk. (1960+150=2110)
Machine gunners, like the Mamba, should be able to start firing at about 200m beyond range, which would be something like 1200m. (1000+200=1200)
Keep in mind that these numbers assume that the combatants are closing head-to-head...

Feel free to correct me if any of my numbers are wrong. I can take it.

Agreed; for head to head encounters, you can safely add the average afterburner speed of you and your opponent divided by your weapon's shot period onto the max range of your weapon (with beams, you multiply by the shot period because it's less than 1). For a Nighthawk vs an incoming upgraded Mamba, you get ~260m*0.5 = 130m of extra range on your beams.
For machine guns, you can fire from 1100m for all ships, or slightly further out (~1130-1150) if both opponents are flying the faster ships (Lights, Kingfisher, Stingray, Swordfish).
Kingfisher range is ~1700 to 1730m.
Stingray range is ~1780 to 1820.
Krait is ~2100m.
Nighthawk is ~2070m.

...Yes, I have a spreadsheet.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:45 pm

Thanks for explaining that, Loki. I wasn't entirely sure about my numbers, so I was kinda nervous that I got something wrong. I realize now that I wasn't that far off the mark, just 100-150m too far out... But that's easily corrected.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Loki on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:51 am

No worries about being too accurate with this kind of thing; my numbers are based on stat crunching, a touch of guesswork, and a desire to stay "realistic in game"; too many variables in any situations in the game to use anything more accurate than averages or estimates in this case.

Conversely, you can subtract the numbers I suggested if you are chasing the opponent; your effective range is reduced to ~600m for machine guns when chasing an opponent of similar speed.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by FireOfEarth on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:47 pm

Hmm...this brings up another topic. Yesterday, I was playing with a person named NWOrpheus, who is a good pilot with any ship, and I know it. What troubled me though, was the fact that with his G5 fast cannon, he caught up with me in a couple seconds, shot me two times, and I blew up. This is becoming a problem for me, since I am a light fighter specialist. :/ It kind of irks me that I'm getting blown up so easily now.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Jiel on Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:16 pm

I would again like to take this time to rub it in remind everyone that the single fast cannon is the weakest primary weapon there is, with a lower DPS than even dual MGs. The proportional damage on it is small enough that it has no effect on targets besides bombers and turrets, and even then only for the first few shots. This continues to hold even after fast cannons got a +10dmg buff 8 months or so ago. In the time required by a G5 to shoot you twice, a Mamba would have shot your Sidewinder more than 8 times, killing you after the 7th hit.

The reason why the G5 is so deliciously OP isn't the fast cannon, it's because it has the speed and agility of a light fighter along with the higher durability of the medium fighter class. Its primary weapon isn't particularly strong, though the fast reloading rockets are quite a boon.

To make a sketchy RPG analogy:

  1. Mamba: Thief in light armor, dual wielding daggers.
  2. Sidewinder: Thief in underwear with boots of speed hax, dual wielding daggers.
  3. Viper: Thief in light armor with boots of speed, dual wielding daggers and in possession of scrolls of Magic Missile.
  4. Kingfisher: Priest in light armor with boots of speed, equipped with a mace and a small shield.
  5. Merlin: Fighter in light armor +1, dual wielding longswords and in possession of scrolls of Magic Missile.
  6. Piranha/Swordfish: Fighter in heavy armor +1, equipped with a 2h-sword +4 and in possession of scrolls of Magic Missile.
  7. Barracuda: Retard Red Mage in a heavy armoire +2 with no less than 6 tower shields strapped to himself front, side, and back for extra protection. Dual wields wands of Magic Missile that have daggers strapped onto their ends for occasional use in melee combat.
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by eltazar on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:58 am

Jiel wrote:
To make a sketchy RPG analogy:

rofl... what about cobra/nighthawk? bow/crossbowman? Smile

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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:25 am

FireOfEarth wrote:I am a light fighter specialist.

If I had to pick a specific weapon that I specialize in, it would have to be in using the beam cannon. I have yet to see another beam cannoneer get a higher kill count than me in my Nighthawk. Of course, there will always be people that score more kills, but they are also normally in an A80, FH-250, G5 or X99, which I consider to be the most OP ships in the game...
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by the-anger on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:41 am

Nightwing wrote:
FireOfEarth wrote:I am a light fighter specialist.

If I had to pick a specific weapon that I specialize in, it would have to be in using the beam cannon. I have yet to see another beam cannoneer get a higher kill count than me in my Nighthawk. Of course, there will always be people that score more kills, but they are also normally in an A80, FH-250, G5 or X99, which I consider to be the most OP ships in the game...
im game to put that to the test... though nowdays i prefer M10 so i can snipe torpedoes better...
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Re: Fast FM-25?

Post by Nightwing on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:00 pm

Looking forward to it, Anger.
Why don't we try to meet up and have a contest on who's better with beams? I figure, that in order to make it more fair, we should try to be on the same team. That way, we'll have the same players to shoot at, rather than the contest coming down to whoever has more noobs on their team.
We could also find an empty server and just shoot at each other... Though it would probably be skewed by the fact that the Nighthawk is the ONLY beamer that I have, which would make it tough for your Krait.
Unless you also have the Nighthawk...?
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Re: Fast FM-25?

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