Capture the flag: the best type?

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Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by sammycheny on Sun May 12, 2013 6:40 pm

hey guys, i was just thinking back to the times when i was still a 2-stripe.. capture the flag was the absolute most fun game type for me. simply because i couldn't take out anyone in SnD, and in carrier assault..well it was just plain boring.

and i've been thinking..that capture the flag is probly the game type that newbies enjoy most, simply because they have a chance of getting lots of points (even if they are just flag pickup points). so i was thinking, we shud play more CTF when there are new ppl around, and maybe the pros can all agree to hold of doing flag runnings and just escort instead. maybe we could make a prior agreement to only let 3-stripe and below do captures Smile besides, CTF IS much more fun when ppl don't just go in G5s and f3x's and ignore my friendly fire (or beams actually) to go do flag runs by themselves

just thoughts, what do you guys think?

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Recorde on Sun May 12, 2013 7:12 pm

I LOVE CTF!!!!! Always have and always will. That's why I am always so sad to see the "veto ctf" blasphemy that occurs far too often.

I am trying to think about my pre 4-bar days and I am trying to figure out if that is where my love for ctf started - I think you may be on to something! Although the objectives in CTF aren't immediately clear for the new new - ctf provides valuable practice in boosting, running and target focusing: 3 very necessary skills for Mamba pilots!

While I can't speak for everyone else and I doubt you will get (as there is no definite way to enforce) people to alter how they go about a ctf match, but I do try to do a couple things in a non-hyper competitive match. 1) Leave the 3bars(esp. when in Mambas) alone to try and cap the flag, but they better watch out for my teammates and 2) kill the B-7 flying with the flag around in circles around their carrier - no one likes these guys ruining a decent match.

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by MJ on Sun May 12, 2013 9:39 pm

I love CTF as well, and I have found I love flying escort. You don't score as many points, but you also don't get the crap blown out of you as often. Plus, you get the satisfaction of zapping people off the tail of your teammate.

I like your plan and will do my part to help out, but I don't think it will work out very well. There are too many four stripers who are a little too competitive in this game. And, most of the time I see people calling for a CTF veto, it is from guys who only have a few stripes by their name.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by the-anger on Sun May 12, 2013 10:14 pm

imho, ctf used to be fun before the G5 had a boost and the seeming obsession with winning by an astronomically needless margin doesn't help any.

G5 is hubris i can deal with.

but one other phenomenon has utterly killed CTF being enjoyable for me. im referring to players using bombers in CTF games... some players seem to think that if they cannot do a flag run on their own, the situation then warrants using bombers. it doesn't. CTF is a team game, expect to die on a flag run with good defense. it's. normal.

not here to name names, just pointing out that this happens (as i see it).

this is the CTF-equivalent of A80 in SnD... for those who know how to chase and deal damage at the same time, not a big problem. fun in fact, at times (would you believe?). but those who can't do one or the other (or both) have the raw end of the stick there...

however, i will shut the hell up if someone can conclusively prove that a mamba is sufficient to defend against bombers in CTF Razz

(and a small reminder that G5 has the same anti-newbie sentiments about it, but not nearly to the same extent)

and then there are people who fall into a category of their own, to whom a fair go bears a risk of leprosy and insist on using the cheapest, most overpowered approach they can way past the point of enjoyment for anyone. A80 goes here except in some games where there is some balance of skill at play, as do bombers outside of, you know, bombing carriers. i detest such attitudes and spend most of my game time hunting those who display it, if for no reason other than they give easy motivation to fight the odds and improve skills Very Happy
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nostromo on Sun May 12, 2013 10:31 pm

I agree with Anger, and not just cause we're Squad mates, those bombers really kill the fun most of our untrained noobies can have! especially when they're using nukes to cover their escape. Granted a Mamba in the right hands can toast anything, but that takes time and practice that most new guys just don't have under their belt yet.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by livingstone on Mon May 13, 2013 2:28 am

I never can understand why there is so much 'veto CTF'. This is my favourite game type, probably because it is the type I suck at least of all. I play MB for fun and CTF is most fun for me. As for bombers...aren't they for bombing, not for running flags? Mind you, when new players get shot down time after time in an un-upgraded Mamba, who could blame them for trying a bomber?


Last edited by livingstone on Mon May 13, 2013 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nightwing on Mon May 13, 2013 3:12 am

I know exactly what you mean. In CTF (And CA, to a certain extent) I tend to gravitate to the Mamba, which I'll use for turret-busting, to give noobs a chance to score without having to worry about the turrets taking them out. I mean, come on. I've yet to see a noob try to dodge turret fire, at all. One of the most common things that I see, is that a noob will try to do a CA match by getting into a stock B-7, fly solo to the enemy carrier, and try to send a torp straight at a turret. Not only does the torp get taken out immediately, but the noob is usually at a sliver of health by the time they launch said torpedo.

At least destroying the turrets would make these tactics viable, but these attempts are invariably made at the start of the match. And then, the noobs rage quit, saying that turrets are OP, or some shtako like that, without even thinking to themselves 'Hey! Am I doing this wrong?'
No. Their first thoughts are usually along the lines of 'These turrets are too tough! This game is completely unfair!'

Don't get me wrong. When I see a noob going at it over and over (Definition of insanity, anyone?) I'll bring up my chat bar and say 'Hey <insert name here>, nice job!' Or, if I have a bounty on my head, no matter the size, I'll suicide (You keep your bounty if you suicide, so long as you have a full shield.) and get into my Mamba, before flying in front of them, and slowing down, basically saying 'Get your free cred here!', and just staying on their 12 until I go boom.

Because, let's face it: For a noob just starting out, high-level bounties are usually so far out of reach that it doesn't even matter, so the only way to give them that cred would be to let them shoot you down.

I can almost guarantee, if a MINIMUM of one ace per match did this, we'd be getting more and more aces, because those noobs will want to stick around.

Another bad practice is spawn camping. I can attest to this personally: The first match that I EVER did, I was probably well on my way to a world record number of respawns, without even getting more than 100m from the launch lanes. But I stuck with it, and now, I'm among the top aces in the game. I have yet to face my equal in a Nighthawk. I can honestly say this, because I've never met Xron or any of the other similarly high-level beam aces in-game... If i did meet them, I'd probably be crying at how godlike they are, compared to me.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by the-anger on Mon May 13, 2013 3:23 am

one thing to point out - you keep your bounty if someone else did not claim responsibility for your death. "responsibility for your death" = you took direct damage from someone within 30 seconds of dying (last person to do so gets the kill score, second-last gets assist), regardless of how or why you died (their name becomes orange on your screen for the duration).

CA has it's own problems with newbies and bombers, can of worms for another thread.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by eltazar on Mon May 13, 2013 4:35 am

well i have to say at first, that I love CTF ... but in fact, it is the most difficult type of game at all. you can always shoot down some torpedo at CA, or get a free-kill on some other noob, but i CTF, if you do not know the routine it needs to take a flag (like feathering, drifting and so on), you will never be good at it.

and most of all, even if i shout with CAPS and one million of "!" marks, most of noobs just wont defend our flag and keep trying to shoot at 2km with B-7 Smile

anyway, I'm always sad when I see "veto CTF" and ppl just do not press "ready" because CTF... there is so low game mods at all, and if well played, CTF is most funny of all of them Smile

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by SienaRannock on Mon May 13, 2013 8:02 am

CTF, in my opinion, needs a lot of team coordination (who's defending, going for the flag, covering the flag etc.) and the ingame chat is really poor way to communicate. They should've put voice chat so that it'd be easier to communicate (not that it bothers me since my mic is f4cked up No ).
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Loki on Mon May 13, 2013 9:39 am

Voice chat was on the list, as was friend lists and squadrons, but fell by the wayside, along with many other features and bug-fixes.

I always have a good time in CTF until someone starts flag-tanking in a bomber. I did it a couple times way back (about a year ago), but found it wasn't very much fun. Now I typically use a non-optimal ship (M10) to keep things interesting and give others on my team a chance. I'll often jump into a Mamba, though sometimes I'll use a Stingray to confuse people while popping turrets, then run flags.

It's a great game mode that gives people a goal other than "shoot at the red guys" and can really show some teamwork if you've got a few experienced players on both sides.

If a teammate grabs a flag and you're nearby, either follow them at 500-800m to protect them, or stay and kill some turrets while waiting for the next flag to drop.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Wolfski on Mon May 13, 2013 10:45 am

To me CTF is still the most tactical mode.... but so many don't play the objective they simply fly around like its S&D...
If you truly get 2 sides that split 50:50 cap and defend then its very very difficult to make a successful cap....
but alas so many of these games end up in the former so the few actually playing the objectives end up with a pretty easy ride...
and all these noobies all crying VETO.... get a grip you lot!

then there's the idiot bombers that simply keep nuking their own flag base to defend it.... sad sad sad.......
this mode should have blocked bombers from even being selectable...
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Loki on Mon May 13, 2013 10:48 am

Wolfski wrote:this mode should have blocked bombers from even being selectable...

+1 Sadly, this didn't get implemented before WJ left.
(For those who don't know, WJ was the last developer on the project, now working directly for Uber Enterainment on Planetary Annihilation)
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Pejota on Mon May 13, 2013 10:59 am

I propose the following:

If you see in your own team some random guy flying a bomber, all should ram him to dead. Friendly kill in this cases is more than acceptable.


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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by SienaRannock on Mon May 13, 2013 11:42 am

P3jota wrote:I propose the following:

If you see in your own team some random guy flying a bomber, all should ram him to dead. Friendly kill in this cases is more than acceptable.



Killing bomber with crashes requires you to fly a bomber as well, and a helluva lot of nerves, I think.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nutz on Mon May 13, 2013 1:18 pm

I like all the game types in there own setting myself, but I find in CTF the only people ever playing the game are those with 3 and 4 stripes anyway. All the others are in bombers in the middle of the map.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nostromo on Mon May 13, 2013 2:00 pm

I always liked games like CTF and CA cause I, at least most of the time, had the Aces and Vets trying to accomplish the objectives instead of hammering on the New kids. granted that means the kids learn nothing in dogfighting Aces, but gives them a chance to see what the Space is about and the controls and the carriers. Plus they can ask questions easier in that environment instead of a constant dogfight like SnD.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by sammycheny on Mon May 13, 2013 5:16 pm

yeah, well i tink from now on i'll stick to defending and bodyguarding my noob friends if there are at least three (or two) 3 stripe or under Smile maybe we can like change the CTF culture after a while

oh and, nightwing, have you vs.ed the anger yet? :O he's like, 3 times better than me (on my good day) :S

bdw, wat time do you usually play? Very Happy don't think i've ever played with you

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nightwing on Mon May 13, 2013 5:21 pm

Yeah. I can't even remember the last time I did a CTF.

My strategy in CTF depends on how many other players there are, as well as their level:
2v2
If I have a high-level ace on my team planning on flag running, I'll take the flag defense role in my Nighthawk (It's surprisingly effective at this). If my teammate is planning on defense, I'll get into my Mamba, and go on the offensive. When I'm flag-running, I often don't even bother with softening the defenses, since I can just weave through the bullets.
3v3 and up:
If I'm not defending, I'll go out in my Mamba to attack the enemy turrets, in order to make it easier for my allies to do the flag runs.
Any time the flag carrier is shot down, I'll do a boost turn and try to run it myself.
I've actually gotten pretty good at flag retrieval: I remember one CTF match on Broken Moon, where I was in my Mamba, waiting to launch, and my flag carrier was shot down just as the timer reached 3.
When I finally launched, I turned to the icon, and saw that it was about 5,000-6,000m away, behind the carriers. I made a beeline straight to the icon, and grabbed the flag a split second before it reset. That was one of the best grabs I've ever done...
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nightwing on Mon May 13, 2013 5:25 pm

sammycheny wrote:oh and, nightwing, have you vs.ed the anger yet? :O he's like, 3 times better than me (on my good day) :S

Anger is an unholy eldritch abomination that uses telepathy to fly while on the toilet. No one is his equal.

bdw, wat time do you usually play? Very Happy don't think i've ever played with you

I main on US West, normally between 7:00-8:00 P.M. My time zone is (UTC) -08:00.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Loki on Mon May 13, 2013 5:26 pm

Nightwing wrote:
sammycheny wrote:oh and, nightwing, have you vs.ed the anger yet? :O he's like, 3 times better than me (on my good day) :S

Anger is an unholy eldritch abomination that uses telepathy to fly while on the toilet. No one is his equal.

I told you to be careful what you wish for!
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by the-anger on Mon May 13, 2013 7:44 pm

Loki wrote:
Nightwing wrote:
sammycheny wrote:oh and, nightwing, have you vs.ed the anger yet? :O he's like, 3 times better than me (on my good day) :S

Anger is an unholy eldritch abomination that uses telepathy to fly while on the toilet. No one is his equal.

I told you to be careful what you wish for!

clearly my ship consists of a crapper and a cockpit. its efficient Very Happy
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by eltazar on Tue May 14, 2013 1:46 am

nah, stop crying about bombers Smile i do not know how many times did you experience this, but i never did - i hate nuking in snd while hiding in carrier, its much much worse than nuking flag...

one little story, two days ago i took B10T for CTF, cause rest of my team was... simply useless... and I make one of my greatest kills while shot down flag carrier with mg and two seconds after, flag pickuper runs into my armed torpedo... it was hilarious Smile

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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by the-anger on Tue May 14, 2013 3:21 am

cant speak for others, but personally i experience it frequently. it may have something to do with me zapping anything that gets near the flag with beams. aaaand at least once a night i see an A80 playing CTF defense against a team of mambas. at least once.
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Re: Capture the flag: the best type?

Post by Nightwing on Tue May 14, 2013 11:33 am

Yeah... A80's are pretty much the troll ships of Moon Breakers. They can spam trackers up the wazoo, taking down well over 10-15 in a couple minutes, yet the instant they take a bullet hit, they hide in their carrier.

It's cowardly tactics like that which are ruining the game.
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