Missile Dodging 101

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Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 pm

Before I really get started, I didn't see any threads like this already, so if I should be refering people elsewhere please let me know. My intent is to talk specifically about surviving a few extra seconds against an A-80, hence the title.

There have been a couple times I've been tempted to fly in a straight line and give tips to the noobs. Fun as it is to down ship after faceless ship, when I actually think about it in terms of abusing new players who might not support the game as a result, I'm really not doing my favorite game any favors by it.

Perhaps I should make the offer, and the moment anyone kills me; it's on!
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:51 pm

In anycase, without further ado;

Rule One: ALERT! ALERT! Be aware of your missile lock indicator. When that lights up; it's dodge or die. A distracted pilot is an easy kill.

Un-upgraded Long Range missiles supposedly fly for 6 seconds, but that seems longer in game. Most of the time you have 2 to 3 seconds between missile lock and impact, use it well. If you're fairly close to an A-80 he's struggling to get the lock in the first place, but you've only got half a second or less if he does. Part of missile dodging is evading the lock on, which I may cover later.



Last edited by Kackling Kobold on Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Rule two; Double Tap. Ok this is actually one of my rules for killing you. I only fire and forget against brand new mambas, If i really mean to kill you, I'm watching that missile track you, and I'm firing again as soon as I get loaded & locked.

So make me dodge you, or expect the second salvo.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Loki on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:10 pm

Thanks Kobold; there aren't really many tips for using or dodging missiles.

We can parse or split some of these into to one sentence and put them into the Gameplay Tips we're compiling for WJ to put into the game.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:13 pm

Rule Three; Find your enemy's weapon! (in SCA this is rule one, but we're dueling with Missiles and MG's not swords and halebreds).

So, figure out where that missile is. If you're in a light fighter, Rule one says incoming missiles are your primary concern, right? So is it on your screen, or off? and manuver accordingly, see manuvers below.

but first: Rule Four, COVER!
is there a rock next to you? fly around it. above the asteroid field? turn and burn, get yer butt in there, the sooner that missile collides with a rock, or carrier, the sooner you can go address the real threat; me. If you were near cover in the first place, it would have been harder to lock onto you (just by the way) any break in line of sight fouls a weapon lock.

Rule Two Hundred Fifty Five: STAY TOGETHER!
I hate hate hate when enemies cluster together. When you fly in front of each other, it fouls my weapon lock. If I get between three of you, i'm a gonner. Be wise though, if you're all in Mambas, it's gonna take at least four of you; the one I kill at range, the one I kill up close, and at least 2 more.

Corollary on this rule; bombers love it when you cluster together. Watch out for those torpedoes. (that's the class down the hall).

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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Vonstapler on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:17 pm

I've found it effective from time to time to spin my sidewinder around and spiral over top of the missiles. It backfires sometimes, but when it does succeed I have a great shot on a now very surprised A80 pilot.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:56 pm

Ok so; Manuvers

A) Gun it down? Center mounted guns such as those on the A-80, G5, & Rhino have a pretty good chance of shooting down individually fired missiles by shooting at the aggressor, while the AOE from a rocket can actually take out tracking missiles. It takes a lot of practice to make this work more than occasionally, and worse, the A-80's missiles are not center mounted, so although it's good to know this is possible, I don't actually recomend it as your primary recourse.

B)Turn toward the missile. You read that right, if the missile is not already directly in front of you, burn slide (afterburner and turn) and put the missile directly in front of you. The missiles do seem to attempt a small lead; If you are sliding the missile seems to have a tiny bit more difficulty tracking you, and the missile cannot make sharp turns, so that last minute change in your course throws the missile off wildly. This dodge actually seems to be most effective when the missile is somewhere behind you.

C) Corkscrew. Ok, so now we've got an orange missile marker right in front of us, WHAT DO WE DO NOW!? *engage data monacle for dramatic effect* WE DIE!!

no no, we put our cursor on a diagonal and bank to the same side; tilting our ship in to a graceful corkscrew. Missiles go right down the middle, and it's pretty hard to hit you with other weapons too. I recommend this as an alternative to head on runs in most ships.

This also works if the missile happened to be directly behind you, and though it is quite amusing to see the missile zip out in front of you; it's a huge gamble as it's pretty hard to know precisely where behind you a missile is.

Bombers I have only seen accomplish this with afterburners, and I haven't been able to make bombers do it myself. Frankly, if you're in a bomber, why are you dodging missiles when you can....

D) Get out of range! This takes a degree of mastery with your afterburner that I haven't quite achieved myself yet, but I know it's doable because ace pilots zip past me and straight outrun my missiles on a regular basis, especially in G5s, Merlins and Panthers. Missiles have limited fuel. If they miss on the first pass they've got a lot less fuel by the time they've finished coming about, and a whole lot of momentum to make up. If you were already going fast when the missile missed you, it's chances of catching anything but a heavy fighter is slim.

A note on Long Range Missiles; Missiles fired from long range don't have fuel for a second pass. If you're already going at breakneck speeds roughly toward an A-80, get past him and keep going. his ONLY chance to hit you was head on, or if you run out of afterburner and slow down in time for his second volley. Long range missile shots at retreating targets seem virtually pointless, as a strategic matter I make that shot at enemies headed for the flag anyway; the missile indicator keeps most pilots running & they've got that much less fuel for the return trip.


Last edited by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 pm

Take if from someone who annoys the crap out of me;

Vonstapler wrote:I've found it effective from time to time to spin my sidewinder around and spiral over top of the missiles. It backfires sometimes, but when it does succeed I have a great shot on a now very surprised A80 pilot.

That would be the corkscew i was talking about. And it's no suprise to me Vonstapler; that's why A-80's have battering rams.

Well that's it for now.

Lock on to you soon,
Kobold.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:58 am

Kackling Kobold wrote:

D) Get out of range! This takes a degree of mastery with your afterburner that I haven't quite achieved myself yet, but I know it's doable because ace pilots zip past me and straight outrun my missiles on a regular basis, especially in G5s, Merlins and Panthers.

I may have been mistaking Vipers for Merlins, it's hard to tell when Rabana or Torroroso are flashing past me. I think I assumed it was a Merlin based on the pilot; Merlin pilots give me a headache for sure, but not like the G5s.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by longshot on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:44 am

Kackling Kobold wrote:Rule Two Hundred Fifty Five: STAY TOGETHER!
I hate hate hate when enemies cluster together. When you fly in front of each other, it fouls my weapon lock.

Great thread. Quick comment on this one - the missile-shooter can use zoom to pick out & lock onto a distant target amidst a crowd.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Loki on Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:24 am

Kackling Kobold wrote:
Kackling Kobold wrote:

D) Get out of range! This takes a degree of mastery with your afterburner that I haven't quite achieved myself yet, but I know it's doable because ace pilots zip past me and straight outrun my missiles on a regular basis, especially in G5s, Merlins and Panthers.

I may have been mistaking Vipers for Merlins, it's hard to tell when Rabana or Torroroso are flashing past me. I think I assumed it was a Merlin based on the pilot; Merlin pilots give me a headache for sure, but not like the G5s.

I always check the scoreboard before heading into a fight. This gives you a chance to plan for what's coming rather than just reacting. Having said that, most plans don't survive to the battlefield, but at least you tried.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:17 am

longshot wrote:
Kackling Kobold wrote:Rule Two Hundred Fifty Five: STAY TOGETHER!
I hate hate hate when enemies cluster together. When you fly in front of each other, it fouls my weapon lock.

Great thread. Quick comment on this one - the missile-shooter can use zoom to pick out & lock onto a distant target amidst a crowd.

After playing with you this evening... I nominate you to write the part about dodging weapon locks in the first place.

There were times it felt like I had wrestled to keep you in my cross hairs for half an eternity, watching you weasel out of my weapon lock over and over again & i still have no idea how you were doing it. A lesser player would dismiss it as hacking. I just rammed you repeatedly.

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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by longshot on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:39 am

Lol ok - its called being a coward! I hide behind rocks, fly behind friendly ships, and if out of boost I get in close and turn tightly, hoping for a wingman to bail me out Smile

Now I just need a way to avoid the almighty ram...
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:00 pm

I missile down cowardly heavies and other slower than panther rides on a regular basis. You were in a medium, a G5 I think, and out of burn i'd guess, or you'd have left me in the dust.

I'll bet you can manage a few better tips than that.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by longshot on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:20 pm

Um, ok, if that was the case then my strategy is to wiggle the mouse around like a madman and hope for the best! I think I was prolly in a Merlin which has precious little boost to begin with. Doing the crazy-wiggle in an enemy furball also provides the chance that a target will stray across the guns long enough for an opportunity kill before I die.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by ◄Reapers► Subedei on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:40 am

As an A-80 pilot I find this whole thread an abhorance and should be DELETED RIGHT AWAY. Very Happy

Saying that if you do not want to get hit by missiles the best way is to dodge round some thing, fly at right angles to the missile trajectory and try get the missiles to hit an object. If there is nothing to hide behind then, if you are in something quick, fly away from me as fast as possible so the missiles run out of range or turn and face me head on, fly past and then put some distance on.

Don't try to do a turn unless you a close enough to wizz pass and behind, doing a little balerina move at medium distance will just get you hit quicker, tight turning is slows you down, speed is your friend......

Also, they do took a while to lock on, get jiggy with it and put some wobble in your flight...

Why I am offering up this advice one only knows...

Rolling Eyes

Regards

Sub


Last edited by ◄Reapers► Subedei on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammer!)
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by longshot on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:49 am

lets look at it the other way around. Best way to get missile lock quickly & hold it easily if enemy's alone - play with the zoom out as far as it can go. I've already said how to use the zoom-in key to lock on a distant opponent in a crowd, so I won't mention that again. Oh, and fly a honey badger or boomer, they both spam missiles at an alarming rate Wink
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Quantum Razor on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:48 am

The best way to avoid missiles is to fly like rocks are your best friends.

Looking for targets in rock field? Fly from rock to rock.
Flying the Broken Moon? Fly the knife edge of a moon shard or in the valleys of a crevasse.

Also it's very important to know what missile boats are currently flying against you. If there's two A-80s or one and a FH-90 (boomer) all missiles are mortal threats. Chance are the first volley has friends following it. Do not charge either of these ships because chances are you will loose. It can be done but odds are against you.

The boomer can spam missiles at a furious rate. If you don't have a close wingman that first missile is going to be followed by a second or third until the boomer pilot is distracted or you find cover.

Boomers have spots they like to lurk in. Expose yourself to them at your peril.

If neither of these ships are present and you get a missile warning that means you have an advanced fighter behind you boost and jink like heck. Look for teammates to fly towards you so they can peel it off your tail.

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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:31 pm

My tips were specifically for surviving a few more seconds against an A-80, I had no idea that the different kinds of tracking missiles behaved differently.

Additionally, I know I set it out as a series of steps, but you have to be practiced enough to basically do it all at once. It all happens very quickly...
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Loki on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:07 pm

Short Range missiles (FH-200/250, V66, X99) are slower than Long Range missiles and are slightly harder to dodge due to tighter turn radius, but easier to outdistance.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by longshot on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:36 am

Actually I find SRM easier to evade by flying behind rocks - they'll quickly turn and hit the rock - whereas the faster LRM will turn slower & hence fly around the rock and still hit you when you thought yourself safe.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Viking Jack on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:14 pm

longshot wrote:Actually I find SRM easier to evade by flying behind rocks - they'll quickly turn and hit the rock - whereas the faster LRM will turn slower & hence fly around the rock and still hit you when you thought yourself safe.

yeah thats true i hate when long range missiles go around my cover, thankfully i survive most hits but it just makes me angry,
i see the orange missile symbol chasing me and then i hide behind a rock waiting to the evil nasty thing to go away but it doesn't and then plaf!(i do believe thats the sound when you get hit by a missile) next thing i see its the master alarm sign and me saying the magic words ffs and fml

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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by DrunkenMonkey on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:13 pm

Or sprint behind a rock, only to see that symbol become two, and then I blow up instantly, cursing the A-80 for looking in my direction for 1.5 seconds Mad

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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:19 am

Usually when i see that happen its more a case of the missile almost being on the target when they burn behind the rock & its just a matter of the missile finishing it's turn & catching up to them, not so much about how sharp the missile turns.

Still... it does give me a cruel giggle.

So the lesson is, keep going around that rock until the indicator is gone... conversely you could turn sharply away from the rock, which oddly i've found is more likely to trick the missile into hitting the rock as it misses you.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

Post by Kackling Kobold on Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:27 am

A new development, by the way...

Ive noticed that rockets and missiles now foul a weapon lock when they didn't before. I don't know precicely when this change occured, & I can handle the other changes to missiles (slower loading, slower locking, faster targets) but this one seriously fills me with rage. Couple this with the fact that sting rays now load their single tracking missile stupidly fast, and a string ray of all things is the new A-80 bane.
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Re: Missile Dodging 101

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